Okay, if I have a rectangle shaped house, and at the center of one side/edge of that rectangle shaped house was the exterior doorway and a concrete stoop/landing 6'x3' with grade being 6" below and leading from that landing was 4 risers at 7.75" = 31" a.f.f. and the ground was sloped with the steps, would you require a guard on both sides of the stairs or just one?
-
Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades
Guards
- Thread starter rktect 1
- Start date
Mac
Gold Member
Re: Guards
If I'm visualizing your description right, the grade slopes down along (paralell) with the steps & risers, so at no point in the stair run is the grade more than 30 inches below the steps.
Can I measure more than 30 inches to the adjacent grade at the edge of any step or tread?
If not, then no guard is required (R312.1). A handrail is required, but only on "at least" one side(R311.5.6).
Caution - R311 may have been modified by NY State - check your code language carefully!
If I'm visualizing your description right, the grade slopes down along (paralell) with the steps & risers, so at no point in the stair run is the grade more than 30 inches below the steps.
Can I measure more than 30 inches to the adjacent grade at the edge of any step or tread?
If not, then no guard is required (R312.1). A handrail is required, but only on "at least" one side(R311.5.6).
Caution - R311 may have been modified by NY State - check your code language carefully!
globe trekker
Registered User
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,739
Re: Guards
Is this landing and stairs on the 'interior' or the 'exterior' of the structure?
Is this landing and stairs on the 'interior' or the 'exterior' of the structure?
JBI
Registered User
Re: Guards
rktect1 -
Mac is correct, IMHO. Lacking a local amendment, NOT required. Of course, 'required' is not the same as 'recommended'. I have been known to recommend a 'smarter' alternative to minimum compliance on occasion. If nothing else visitors would be less likely to step off the sides of the stairs if there were some sort of guard or railing.
The following excerpts are from the 2006 IRC. I suppose one could 'interpret' the second sentence in R312.1 "...total rise of more than 30"..." to mean from bottom tread to top tread, but personally I wouldn't.
R311.5.6 Handrails.
Handrails shall be provided on at least one side of each continuous run of treads or flight with four or more risers.
R312.1 Guards.
Porches, balconies, ramps or raised floor surfaces located more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in height. Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured vertically from the nosing of the treads.
Mac - Copy and paste this into your 'favorites' list, it's the I-Codes on line... http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/ You can search all the codes that ICC has available. When you click on the Res Code, it takes you to a screen where you can select year. If you click 'Selections' at the top of the main page you can also look at available State Codes and other neat stuff. One of the few things they didn't dismantle... YET!
globe - Exterior. I know it is a bit confusing, but it is definitely exterior.
rktect1 -
Mac is correct, IMHO. Lacking a local amendment, NOT required. Of course, 'required' is not the same as 'recommended'. I have been known to recommend a 'smarter' alternative to minimum compliance on occasion. If nothing else visitors would be less likely to step off the sides of the stairs if there were some sort of guard or railing.
The following excerpts are from the 2006 IRC. I suppose one could 'interpret' the second sentence in R312.1 "...total rise of more than 30"..." to mean from bottom tread to top tread, but personally I wouldn't.
R311.5.6 Handrails.
Handrails shall be provided on at least one side of each continuous run of treads or flight with four or more risers.
R312.1 Guards.
Porches, balconies, ramps or raised floor surfaces located more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in height. Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured vertically from the nosing of the treads.
Mac - Copy and paste this into your 'favorites' list, it's the I-Codes on line... http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/ You can search all the codes that ICC has available. When you click on the Res Code, it takes you to a screen where you can select year. If you click 'Selections' at the top of the main page you can also look at available State Codes and other neat stuff. One of the few things they didn't dismantle... YET!
globe - Exterior. I know it is a bit confusing, but it is definitely exterior.
Re: Guards
Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30
inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have
guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured
vertically from the nosing of the treads.
He has 31 inches on one side. Wouldn't this require at least one?
However the code states "shall have guards" as in more than one.
Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30
inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have
guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured
vertically from the nosing of the treads.
He has 31 inches on one side. Wouldn't this require at least one?
However the code states "shall have guards" as in more than one.
JBI
Registered User
Re: Guards
Mule - 'Guards' is modifying 'open sides'. If only one side is 'open' then only one guard would be required. The 31" is from grade at the toe of the slope (or bottom step) to the top of the landing, not along the side of the stairs. Basically this is a concrete stoop with concrete stairs following the decending slope away from the house. Fairly common, relatively typical, rarely with guards or railings (but occasionally WITH one or the other).
Mule - 'Guards' is modifying 'open sides'. If only one side is 'open' then only one guard would be required. The 31" is from grade at the toe of the slope (or bottom step) to the top of the landing, not along the side of the stairs. Basically this is a concrete stoop with concrete stairs following the decending slope away from the house. Fairly common, relatively typical, rarely with guards or railings (but occasionally WITH one or the other).
globe trekker
Registered User
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,739
Re: Guards
Big John,
Thanks for the clarification!
We have tried to enforce the "more than 4 risers requires handrails" on exterior stairs
around these parts and have been severely verablly abused by the builder AND the
homeowner, ...on multiple occasions! The point being, we always have interpreted
the "more than 4 risers" to mean interior only, and that Section 306 of the Property
Maintenance Code would catch the exterior. We have our hands, feet & mouths
tied on this so that we cannot even attempt to require handrails on any Residential
exterior stairways. It just don't have that curb appeal, ya know!! Plus, the female
of the residence ain't going to have it either!! PERIOD !! She wants what she
wants and she is going to get what she wants...
Mule,
The verbage in the code section is referring to some type of guard must be
installed, not more than one. More of a "collective type" noun rather than
an 'individual type' . Good catch and question though!
Big John,
Thanks for the clarification!
We have tried to enforce the "more than 4 risers requires handrails" on exterior stairs
around these parts and have been severely verablly abused by the builder AND the
homeowner, ...on multiple occasions! The point being, we always have interpreted
the "more than 4 risers" to mean interior only, and that Section 306 of the Property
Maintenance Code would catch the exterior. We have our hands, feet & mouths
tied on this so that we cannot even attempt to require handrails on any Residential
exterior stairways. It just don't have that curb appeal, ya know!! Plus, the female
of the residence ain't going to have it either!! PERIOD !! She wants what she
wants and she is going to get what she wants...
Mule,
The verbage in the code section is referring to some type of guard must be
installed, not more than one. More of a "collective type" noun rather than
an 'individual type' .
Good catch and question though!Re: Guards
Actually, I still have 31 inches from top of the landing to bottom of the flight of stairs. 312.1 "Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches above the floor or grade below shall have guards..."
I have two open sides of a stair.
I have 31 inches in rise.
I should have guards on the open sides of these stairs (even though if I fell over to the sides I'd fall 6 inches) as well as a handrail.
Yes?
Actually, I still have 31 inches from top of the landing to bottom of the flight of stairs. 312.1 "Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches above the floor or grade below shall have guards..."
I have two open sides of a stair.
I have 31 inches in rise.
I should have guards on the open sides of these stairs (even though if I fell over to the sides I'd fall 6 inches) as well as a handrail.
Yes?
globe trekker
Registered User
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,739
Re: Guards
I concur with The Mule, ...eerrr, Mr. Mule, ...eerrr The Mr. Mule!
I concur with The Mule, ...eerrr, Mr. Mule, ...eerrr The Mr. Mule!
georgia plans exam
Silver Member
Re: Guards
I think that the intent of the code is to measure the thirty inches adjacent to the open side of the stairs, not to the floor or landing at the bottom of the stair run. I know that the illustrations in the Code and Commentary are not code but there is a good one on page 3-73 of the 2006 IRC Code and Commentary which I agree with. The thirty inch measurement is taken vertically down from any point on the stairs, not in line with the stairs.
Handrail required one side, guardrail not required.
GPE
I think that the intent of the code is to measure the thirty inches adjacent to the open side of the stairs, not to the floor or landing at the bottom of the stair run. I know that the illustrations in the Code and Commentary are not code but there is a good one on page 3-73 of the 2006 IRC Code and Commentary which I agree with. The thirty inch measurement is taken vertically down from any point on the stairs, not in line with the stairs.
Handrail required one side, guardrail not required.
GPE
Re: Guards
I don't see how bags of mulch is going to help. I still have a vertical rise of 31 inches from top of the landing to bottom of steps. Unfortunatly the code section isn't written that well and may be in need of adjusting.brudgers said:
Re: Guards
And exactly what are you attaching that handrail to when the two sides are open? Could you ignore section 312 and just add two posts, one at the top and one at the bottom with a handrail attached, no balusters?georgia plans exam said:
georgia plans exam
Silver Member
Re: Guards
Imagine that the lower horizontal line that the arrows point to was at a diagonal, representing the earth, in line with the stair run and 6" below the treads, as I think the OP was describing. At no point in the run would the vertical measurement be over 30".
Guardrail not required---imho.
Handrail attachment is another issue.
GPE
Imagine that the lower horizontal line that the arrows point to was at a diagonal, representing the earth, in line with the stair run and 6" below the treads, as I think the OP was describing. At no point in the run would the vertical measurement be over 30".
Guardrail not required---imho.
Handrail attachment is another issue.
GPE
brat
Bronze Member
Re: Guards
I'm still not sure if the stairs are elevated or at grade? If they are elevated and more then thirty inches vertically above adjacent grade and open on two sides - guard on both sides required; open on one side - one guard required on that side. If the stairs follow grade and are not more than 30" measured vertically at any point, only one handrail is required, no guard required. Recommended?.... why not.
There are many ways to mount the handrail without pickets. It just needs to be able to withstand 200# of force. Yes it could be as simple as a post at the top and bottom on a run this short. It's mostly in the method of connection.
I'm still not sure if the stairs are elevated or at grade? If they are elevated and more then thirty inches vertically above adjacent grade and open on two sides - guard on both sides required; open on one side - one guard required on that side. If the stairs follow grade and are not more than 30" measured vertically at any point, only one handrail is required, no guard required. Recommended?.... why not.
There are many ways to mount the handrail without pickets. It just needs to be able to withstand 200# of force. Yes it could be as simple as a post at the top and bottom on a run this short. It's mostly in the method of connection.
cboboggs
Moderator
Re: Guards
I pictured it the way georgia plans stated, handrail required, guard not required (but hightly recommended.).
I pictured it the way georgia plans stated, handrail required, guard not required (but hightly recommended.).
Glennman CBO
Silver Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2009
- Messages
- 441
Re: Guards
When you measure the "rise", are you measuring vertically, as it states in the section? "...in height measured vertically from the nosing of the treads". If your stairs rise 6 feet totally (exageration) but the adjacent grade follows the slope of the stairs and it is less than 30" to the grade "measured vertically from the nosing of the treads, (i.e. straight down from the nosing)" then only a handrail is required. The measurement is not from the tread up, but from the tread down (vertically) to the floor or grade below.
In the '09 this height must be 30" or less for a distance of 36" horizontally (if I recall correctly).
When you measure the "rise", are you measuring vertically, as it states in the section? "...in height measured vertically from the nosing of the treads". If your stairs rise 6 feet totally (exageration) but the adjacent grade follows the slope of the stairs and it is less than 30" to the grade "measured vertically from the nosing of the treads, (i.e. straight down from the nosing)" then only a handrail is required. The measurement is not from the tread up, but from the tread down (vertically) to the floor or grade below.
In the '09 this height must be 30" or less for a distance of 36" horizontally (if I recall correctly).
georgia plans exam
Silver Member
Re: Guards
Glennman CBO is correct. The 2009 IRC reads, in part, "Guards shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, ramps and landings that are located more than 30" measured vertically to the floor or grade below at any point within 36" horizontally to the edge of the open side".
GPE
Glennman CBO is correct. The 2009 IRC reads, in part, "Guards shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, ramps and landings that are located more than 30" measured vertically to the floor or grade below at any point within 36" horizontally to the edge of the open side".
GPE