jar546
Forum Coordinator
In your jurisdiction, when does your codes (not your opinion) trigger the necessity to hard wire smoke detectors in a single family dwelling or townhouse?
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Hard Wired Smoke Detectors
- Thread starter jar546
- Start date
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
2012 IRC
Always required for new construction and additions
R314.4 Power source.
Smoke alarms shall receive their primary power from the building wiring when such wiring is served from a commercial source, and when primary power is interrupted, shall receive power from a battery. Wiring shall be permanent and without a disconnecting switch other than those required for overcurrent protection.
Exceptions:
1. Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated when installed in buildings without commercial power.
2. Hard wiring of smoke alarms in existing areas shall not be required where the alterations or repairs do not result in the removal of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available which could provide access for hard wiring without the removal of interior finishes.
Always required for new construction and additions
R314.4 Power source.
Smoke alarms shall receive their primary power from the building wiring when such wiring is served from a commercial source, and when primary power is interrupted, shall receive power from a battery. Wiring shall be permanent and without a disconnecting switch other than those required for overcurrent protection.
Exceptions:
1. Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated when installed in buildings without commercial power.
2. Hard wiring of smoke alarms in existing areas shall not be required where the alterations or repairs do not result in the removal of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space or basement available which could provide access for hard wiring without the removal of interior finishes.
Builder Bob
Sawhorse
Alternate means and methods - Bluetooth or wireless smokes are available. The master can be hardwired and the slaves monitored by the master hardwired smokes.
The IRC requires the smoke detectors installed to be maintained in accordance with the codes they were installed. Therefore, if a smoke detector was not replaced every ten years and a permit is pulled, the lone smoke detector in the hallway was not maintained and the smoke detectors must be upgraded....... If you must install smokes, placement must be in accordance with current codes. Therefore, hardwired master with Bluetooth slaves is acceptable and enhances life safety as the codes require,
The IRC requires the smoke detectors installed to be maintained in accordance with the codes they were installed. Therefore, if a smoke detector was not replaced every ten years and a permit is pulled, the lone smoke detector in the hallway was not maintained and the smoke detectors must be upgraded....... If you must install smokes, placement must be in accordance with current codes. Therefore, hardwired master with Bluetooth slaves is acceptable and enhances life safety as the codes require,
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steveray
SAWHORSE
I wish our State had the will to push this a little harder....but generally where you are not opening the drywall in a room where a detector is required, we are only getting battery, non-interconnect...
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
They make battery wireless interconnected smoke detectors
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Wireless interconnection is great but the code requires 110 power source to each unit. Individually.
And that is how we do it where we are at. Hard wired units in each room, one on each floor including the basement. Unless there is no access in an attic such as cathedral ceilings over the bedrooms. Then we can place a battery operated unit in there.
We must not be looking at the same code book. Where is this Bluetooth slave verbiage at?
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
New construction yes hardwired 110 volt power source with battery backup
Existing residential not required if the power is no accessible
conarb
Registered User
Built a home with high ceilings, within a month of moving in the owner called yelling about batteries going off, sent an electrician over with a 16' step ladder to change backup batteries, a month later they were going off again. Finally the owner bought a 16' step ladder starting to change them himself, the last time I was by there he had all smokes down on a table with wires sticking out of them, I asked him what he was doing he said trying to figure out how to disable the battery backups. The odds of a homeowner falling off the top of a 16' step ladder are a lot higher than any fire ever happening, I thought that once we got hard-wired smokes that batteries going off would be history, best thing to do is just throw them away.
For safety reasons no smoke detector should be located higher than 6' off the floor, in an area where building inspectors are not allowed to climb ladders we are making homeowners climb ladders. In a home with a 150KW Cummins Genset why do codes make us install battery backups anyway?
tmurray
SAWHORSE
Sloped or flat ceilings?
You may have a valid point, don't know the stats?
Maybe a code change proposal is in your future?
fatboy
Administrator
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
May be for safety and energy consumption the code should have a maximum 8 ft ceiling height for a residence.
Be careful Conarb a suggestion can have a different outcome.
Don't worry I can usually recognize sarcasm but those running your state may not have that ability.
conarb
Registered User
All sloped, I can recall building a home in 1978 with high smokes, I always ask the electrician to leave a 16' step ladder with me for final, I grabbed the ladder and told the inspector to come with me and I'd set him up to check the high smokes, he said, don't bother, I can't climb ladders I'll trust you. BTW, in my personal home they are all battery operated and I have the batteries out of all to them, got tired of changing batteries.
fatboy
Administrator
WOW...that is brilliant. Darwin's theory prevails, keep it up sport.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
Here is what Florida has to say:
553.883 Smoke alarms in one-family and two-family dwellings and townhomes.—One-family and two-family dwellings and townhomes undergoing a repair, or a level 1 alteration as defined in the Florida Building Code, may use smoke alarms powered by 10-year nonremovable, nonreplaceable batteries in lieu of retrofitting such dwelling with smoke alarms powered by the dwelling’s electrical system. Effective January 1, 2015, a battery-powered smoke alarm that is newly installed or replaces an existing battery-powered smoke alarm must be powered by a nonremovable, nonreplaceable battery that powers the alarm for at least 10 years. The battery requirements of this section do not apply to a fire alarm, smoke detector, smoke alarm, or ancillary component that is electronically connected as a part of a centrally monitored or supervised alarm system.
553.883 Smoke alarms in one-family and two-family dwellings and townhomes.—One-family and two-family dwellings and townhomes undergoing a repair, or a level 1 alteration as defined in the Florida Building Code, may use smoke alarms powered by 10-year nonremovable, nonreplaceable batteries in lieu of retrofitting such dwelling with smoke alarms powered by the dwelling’s electrical system. Effective January 1, 2015, a battery-powered smoke alarm that is newly installed or replaces an existing battery-powered smoke alarm must be powered by a nonremovable, nonreplaceable battery that powers the alarm for at least 10 years. The battery requirements of this section do not apply to a fire alarm, smoke detector, smoke alarm, or ancillary component that is electronically connected as a part of a centrally monitored or supervised alarm system.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
And, if you are wondering how much they cost: Around $20, here is an example:
Click on the link below to buy and check it out. Maybe even spec out the Florida statute that is more common sense.
https://amzn.to/2WRyaZt
Click on the link below to buy and check it out. Maybe even spec out the Florida statute that is more common sense.
https://amzn.to/2WRyaZt
ICE
Oh Well
This is a dilemma that my AHJ has not been able to deal with. There's probably a dozen "policies". I know that we don't pay any heed to the part about hard-wiring existing dwellings if there is an attic or crawl space....well we get that on complete rewire jobs but not much else. The dwelling pretty much has to be gutted before that's included.
I know what the code requires....there is an obvious path to requiring hard wired alarms on almost every permitted job.....we just ignore that....The backlash is greater than our resolve. I get it....hard wiring alarms is an expensive proposition that people are not prepared for.
I know what the code requires....there is an obvious path to requiring hard wired alarms on almost every permitted job.....we just ignore that....The backlash is greater than our resolve. I get it....hard wiring alarms is an expensive proposition that people are not prepared for.
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Builder Bob
Sawhorse
rktect - did not mean to infer for new construction - however, for existing residential units doing remodels, this is the only way to go especially with the push for the master suite to be remote from the other bedrooms. As far as the comment about the master smoke and the slave smoke, code language does not require that as it is a part of the UL listing for the smoke detector system.
Here is one option -
https://www.firstalertstore.com/sto...st-onelink-wireless-hardwired-smoke-alarm.htm
https://www.firstalertstore.com/sto...st-onelink-wireless-hardwired-smoke-alarm.htm
Here is one option -
https://www.firstalertstore.com/sto...st-onelink-wireless-hardwired-smoke-alarm.htm
https://www.firstalertstore.com/sto...st-onelink-wireless-hardwired-smoke-alarm.htm
conarb
Registered User
ICE
Oh Well
Ya and some people really don’t want them.....it’s a huge PTA. Contractors never mention this to the owners so when I show up for a final inspection, seldom do I find compliant smoke and CO alarms. They learn that there’s another $100 to spend.
The requirement adds, at a minimum, one and sometimes four more inspections. We staple a sheet of instructions to the permit.....I provide the same sheet at the first inspection.....I end up talking to a door bell that says, "What do you mean I have to be there? Can't you take my word for it? It’s ridiculous. Why didn't the contractor tell me? Is the contractor responsible for this?"
LA City has a form that can be provided in lieu of an inspection. Here's a link http://ladbs.org/docs/default-sourc...knowledgment-form-(to-notarize).pdf?sfvrsn=24
It is even notarized. I have seen it stapled to a job card thrice. It was left where I could find it at a final inspection for a re-roof. We do not accept that so I had to perform the inspection. On two occasions there were missing/misplaced smoke / CO alarms....A third had none.
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