Help needed with codes and standards for deck, stairs, posts, railings

[TheWaluks]

Started a deck project with a local contractor in June 2023. Issues began early on with the crew who was sent over here working quickly but as we found out, did not have the contract in hand, so a lot of bad things happened. Now we are almost 3 months into this and out quite a bit of money with a project not done and problems the owner wants to claim are 'within the industry standard'. The latest issue is that they have replaced a set of stairs on the side entry garage door, and have installed the posts in a way that they are obstructing the doorway. To me, it almost seems like it should be marked a fire hazard, but what do I know.. so I'm asking the experts here on this forum for some help with that issue and also, if time permits a review of some of the other 'handywork' shown in the pics attached and also video link.

 

[ICE]

It's not that often that I feel sorry for a contractor.

 

[TheWaluks]

It's not that often that I feel sorry for a contractor.

I don't understand your reply. Can you expand on that?

 

[bill1952]

This is a building codes bulletin board, not general construction, but some comments.

Did you or contractor get a building permit and if so, has the inspector been there yet?

You need a knowledgeable person to visit the site, review the contract and the work, and advise you. Some things need work. Some items you'll probably have to accept as is. I finard the stairs troubling but I don't know background to know if more was expected. A trusted contractor or design professional (architect or engineer) would be ideal to help.

I suggest you put together a succinct list of items and not make final payment until each is responded to.

A lot of less than great contractors out there. It's why I just do everything I can myself.

Good luck.

 

[TheWaluks]

This is a building codes bulletin board, not general construction, but some comments.

Did you or contractor get a building permit and if so, has the inspector been there yet?

You need a knowledgeable person to visit the site, review the contract and the work, and advise you. Some things need work. Some items you'll probably have to accept as is. I finard the stairs troubling but I don't know background to know if more was expected. A trusted contractor or design professional (architect or engineer) would be ideal to help.

I suggest you put together a succinct list of items and not make final payment until each is responded to.

A lot of less than great contractors out there. It's why I just do everything I can myself.

Good luck.

Thanks Bill. No, he did not obtain a permit because they said they were replacing existing structure, so a permit was not needed. Yes, some of the things we know we will to live with and we didn't expect perfection, but when things go 'this wrong' everything starts to get under your skin. THANK YOU for the reply and advice; much appreciated. [I did not expand fully in the video, but the work was to include replacing the 'top' of the deck; we were told by several that the underlying structure was fine. This contractor said the same, but the crew he sent accidentally ripped out everything, including landscape lights and wiring...] Thanks again. (below are some of the drink rail clips and screws they used...they pretty much all look like this.. some even worse..)

 

[TheWaluks]

Thanks Bill. No, he did not obtain a permit because they said they were replacing existing structure, so a permit was not needed. Yes, some of the things we know we will to live with and we didn't expect perfection, but when things go 'this wrong' everything starts to get under your skin. THANK YOU for the reply and advice; much appreciated. [I did not expand fully in the video, but the work was to include replacing the 'top' of the deck; we were told by several that the underlying structure was fine. This contractor said the same, but the crew he sent accidentally ripped out everything, including landscape lights and wiring...] Thanks again. (below are some of the drink rail clips and screws they used...they pretty much all look like this.. some even worse..)

Sorry if my post is in the wrong place. I'm really just at a loss of what to do and wanted to know if there is any standard/code for how close a handrail post can be /should be from the door opening. I looked and could only find codes about the size of steps and rails, but could not find anything that said if it was 'ok' to block a doorway with a post.

 

[bill1952]

There are regulations for how high, how strong, and how large of openings below the top rail of a guard. And there are regulations for clearances around a hand rail, but don't think any clearance besides not obstructing door on a one family dwelling. Not necessarily good design nor normal practice, but not imho illegal.

The stairs are bothersome in general but don't know what scope of work was. No landing at the top (on neither of two stairs if I understood it) is a safety and a code issue. The edges of the fascia on the sides not being under the treads (ie: treads extended further out past stringers and protect top edge of that piece) and behind the risers is in my opinion poor workmanship, and embarrassing, but not illegal.

Again, condolences.

 

[ICE]

R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors.
There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall be not less than the door served.Landings shall have a dimension of not less than 36 inches(914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. The slope at exterior landings shall not exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2 percent).

R311.3.2 Floor elevations at other exterior doors.
Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 7 3/4 inches below the top of the threshold.
Exception: A top landing is not required where a stairway of not more than two risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided that the door does not swing over the stairway.

R311.5 Landing, deck, balcony and stair construction and attachment.
Exterior landings, decks, balconies, stairs and similar facilities shall be positively anchored to the primary structure to resist both vertical and lateral forces or shall be designed to be self-supporting. Attachment shall not be accomplished by use of toenails or nails subject to withdrawal.

R311.7 Stairways.
R311.7.1 Width. Stairways shall be not less than 36 inches in clear width at all points above the permitted handrail height and below the required head room height. The clear width of stairways at and below the handrail height, including treads and landings, shall be not less than 311/2 inches where a handrail is installed on one side and 27 inches where handrails are installed on both sides.


I couldn't tell how many risers there are:
R311.7.8 Handrails. Handrails shall be provided on not less than one side of each flight of stairs with four or more risers.
R311.7.8.1 Height. Handrail height, measured vertically from the sloped plane adjoining the tread nosing, or finish surface of ramp slope, shall be not less than 34inches and not more than 38 inches.

 

[TheWaluks]

R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors.
There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall be not less than the door served.Landings shall have a dimension of not less than 36 inches(914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. The slope at exterior landings shall not exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2 percent).

R311.3.2 Floor elevations at other exterior doors.
Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 7 3/4 inches below the top of the threshold.
Exception: A top landing is not required where a stairway of not more than two risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided that the door does not swing over the stairway.

R311.5 Landing, deck, balcony and stair construction and attachment.
Exterior landings, decks, balconies, stairs and similar facilities shall be positively anchored to the primary structure to resist both vertical and lateral forces or shall be designed to be self-supporting. Attachment shall not be accomplished by use of toenails or nails subject to withdrawal.

R311.7 Stairways.
R311.7.1 Width. Stairways shall be not less than 36 inches in clear width at all points above the permitted handrail height and below the required head room height. The clear width of stairways at and below the handrail height, including treads and landings, shall be not less than 311/2 inches where a handrail is installed on one side and 27 inches where handrails are installed on both sides.


I couldn't tell how many risers there are:
R311.7.8 Handrails. Handrails shall be provided on not less than one side of each flight of stairs with four or more risers.
R311.7.8.1 Height. Handrail height, measured vertically from the sloped plane adjoining the tread nosing, or finish surface of ramp slope, shall be not less than 34inches and not more than 38 inches.

Thank you.
(there are 3 steps)

 

[ICE]

No, he did not obtain a permit because they said they were replacing existing structure, so a permit was not needed.

I am not familiar with the laws in NC but I suspect that this is not correct. Permit or not, the construction shall be code compliant.

Most of what you pointed out is a quality issue…. And you are too picky for a skilsaw crew that throws together decks.

 

[TheWaluks]

I am not familiar with the laws in NC but I suspect that this is not correct. Permit or not, the construction shall be code compliant.

Most of what you pointed out is a quality issue…. And you are too picky for a skilsaw crew that throws together decks.

Thank you for your reply and your opinion. They did not advertise themselves as a 'throw together skilsaw crew' but I will share that assessment with them for sure.

 

[ICE]

I will share that assessment with them for sure.

Oh I like that.

 

[bill1952]

If the stairs were existing and they just replaced the treads on existing framing, not sure you would have to add the landing.

In my area, the work overall would require a permit, especially since they reframed the entire deck. I think in your position I'd be tempted to call the building department, tell them the contractor said no permit required, but say you are concerned about the work and could they come take a look. At least you'll know if it's legal and not have that come back when the house is someday sold.

And be sure to give them the link to ICE's comment about their quality.

 

[TheWaluks]

If the stairs were existing and they just replaced the treads on existing framing, not sure you would have to add the landing.

In my area, the work overall would require a permit, especially since they reframed the entire deck. I think in your position I'd be tempted to call the building department, tell them the contractor said no permit required, but say you are concerned about the work and could they come take a look. At least you'll know if it's legal and not have that come back when the house is someday sold.

And be sure to give them the link to ICE's comment about their quality.

Thanks, that's a great idea. The steps were also completely ripped out. The replaced them with wood but not the same size as what was there.. then when they realized they didn't do what was requested in the contract, they put composite over the 'new wood' they had installed the week before and kind of jury-rigged the posts.. they are kinda wiggly...

 

[e hilton]

That’s some … interesting … construction details.

You might go here … https://nclbgc.org/ … and see if their license is current. If they are not licensed, there is a dollar limit on what they can do.

Looks like Wake county does not require a permit for resurfacing a deck, but if you replaced any structural components you should have pulled one.

 

[bill1952]

So as I understand it, the project was to just replace decking and rails, but in fact they demoed the framing as well - putting them in the hole right of the start. I would think that building a new frame would require a permit.

If they built all new stairs without the required landing, that would in my opinion be against the law.

 

[TheWaluks]

That’s some … interesting … construction details.

You might go here … https://nclbgc.org/ … and see if their license is current. If they are not licensed, there is a dollar limit on what they can do.

Looks like Wake county does not require a permit for resurfacing a deck, but if you replaced any structural components you should have pulled one.

Thanks, checking this site now. Oddly, I don't see the owner of 'this' company listed as licensed but I do see that his son's business which is listed on the contract too, IS licensed. The person that came to do the quote said they are one company.

 

[TheWaluks]

Thanks, checking this site now. Oddly, I don't see the owner of 'this' company listed as licensed but I do see that his son's business which is listed on the contract too, IS licensed. The person that came to do the quote said they are one company.

And yes.. 'interesting' is a good way to describe it 'nicely'.

 

[jar546]

No, he did not obtain a permit because they said they were replacing existing structure, so a permit was not needed

If I had a dime for every time..............

Oh, the excuses from contractors who don't want anyone checking their work because they are incompetent are abundant. That one, however, is the golden standard of excuses.

 

[ICE]

If I had a dime for every time

Inflation has gotten into everything.