Hold builder accountable for sloped floors?

[stevejboyer]

I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah (Herriman suburb to be exact).
We are the second owners of a 2019 home. After living in the home for a few months I started to notice a slope in the main floor as well as the upstairs. After studying the main floor floor joists from the unfinished basement, I can clearly see a slope.

We had 2 foundation repair companies come out and investigate, and they both found a drop in elevation of 2.5" over the 40' width of the room. My suspicion was/is that the foundation is sinking on that side of the home and that's the reason for the slope.

We filed a claim with the warranty company the home builder purchased a policy with. They sent out a structural engineer who concurred with the status of the floor, but made no attempt to claim whether it was built that way or from active or prior sinking. At this same inspection the home builder sent out a representative who says there are no other signs of a sinking foundation, like cracks in drywall. There are pretty severe cracks in the stucco exterior stemming out from the corners of the back door and windows. This home builder rep thinks the home was just built poorly.

Anyway, the warranty company states they don't care about the issue because we're not in harm's way, as the doors and windows close and lock.

I will continue to measure the slope, myself, over time to determine if the foundation is sinking/settling or if it is stable.

So my question is: Is it possible the builder did in fact build the home out of level, and the city inspection didn't check or didn't care about this? It would surprise me if the flatness of the floor wasn't something that was required to be within a certain threshold by code.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely (and naively),
Steve Boyer

 

[Joe.B]

It is absolutely possible that the builder built it "out of level." The slope you're describing is about one half of one percent. Most builders (and inspectors for that matter) would consider that to be within tolerance, even if it is poor craftsmanship. It is also absolutely possible that the house has settled that much in the few years since it was built. This is not uncommon, though it certainly is undesirable. What's very difficult to know is if this settling is going to continue, or if it is now stable. You would probably have to hire someone to do some soils investigation. If it was determined that it will likely continue to sink then it's in your best interest to get an engineered design to solve the problem. That design might be to excavate around the area, dowel in some rebar, and pour a wider footing. Or it might need some helical piers or deep piles. Whatever the solution is, better sooner than later.

 

[Beniah Naylor]

You may do a Freedom of Information act request at the building department and pull the inspection reports for that project, specifically the footing inspection. May have interesting information on them - or it might just say "Footing Inspection - Approved"...

 

[mtlogcabin]

The date and the weather at the time the inspection was done will also be helpful. If the contractor dug the foundation in the winter months and did not take precautions to keep the ground from freezing that could cause problems.

 

[ICE]

city inspection didn't check

That is likely. As an inspector I have never checked form work for level. I encountered a raised foundation floor that was so slanted that I could see it. I wrote a correction and found out that a slanted floor is not a code violation.

Here is a factoid: The human subconscious can pick up on a slanted floor or ceiling. Because this involves the subconscious there can be a serious discomfort that can’t be identified. The brain knows that something is wrong.
Here’s another: A person can put on eyeglasses that turns everything upside down. After a few days the brain will rewire and turn everything right side up. When the eyeglasses are removed, everything is upside down again and it takes a while for the brain to rewire again to turn everything right side up.

I set edge forms for a tract house. I witnessed the framer pounding the stakes on one side. He tilted the forms by an inch. I asked him why. He said that it will be winter when they get to that slab and he didn’t want standing water.

 

[Yikes]

stevejboyjer, since you posted your question on a building code forum: just to be clear, the building code generally deals with health, safety and welfare issues, not quality of construction issues.
There is no code that says a floor in a private residence must be absolutely level. In commercial buildings, accessibility codes say that anything less than 2% slope is functionally "level" for purposes of using a wheelchair, etc.

So the main question (from a code standpoint) is whether the sloped floor is a symptom of something more problematic, something that is a code issue. For the cracks you are seeing in the exterior stucco at the doors and windows - - can you post a picture, or a link to a picture? Is it more than a hairline crack?

 

[Yikes]

Taking it a step further, there are portions of the codes that *require* sloped floors, such as at public restrooms and food processing facilities that have floor drains.

Years ago I had a colleague that designed a factory with a subtle low-sloping floor at the assembly line. The conveyors all ran ‘downhill’, reducing energy consumption at the plant.

 

[ICE]

Taking it a step further, there are portions of the codes that *require* sloped floors, such as at public restrooms and food processing facilities that have floor drains.

It behooves the inspector to point that out in writing prior to placing concrete. More than once at a final inspection I have heard, "You've got to be kidding" "The floor drain is there because of the prep sink. That's all" "They use a damp mop with chemicals"

 

[jj1289]

If you really get down to it the IRC does not require floors to be level or walls to be plumb. And 2 1/2 inches over 40 ft would not be major concern. We deal with foundations being out of square from the floor framing on a much regular basis and the times that the foundation walls were poured out of level, most frames shimmed the sill plate so the floor system was level.

 

[Mark K]

In understanding your options it might make sense to talk with an attorney. Building codes aside there are industrial standards that might be relevant. Who knows a jury might find 2.5" to be excessive.

My sense is that the warranty company wants to make the problem go away. They are not your friend.

The cracks in the plaster might indicate foundation problems. Have a surveyor survey your house elevations with the intention that you will have him check the elevations in a year. If there is continued settlement you may have bigger problems, but you also may be in a better position to have somebody pay to correct the problem.

You might be able to take the statement from the home builder rep to the bank.

Talk with an attorney. Understand your options.

 

[ICE]

In understanding your options it might make sense to talk with an attorney. Building codes aside there are industrial standards that might be relevant. Who knows a jury might find 2.5" to be excessive.

My sense is that the warranty company wants to make the problem go away. They are not your friend.

The cracks in the plaster might indicate foundation problems. Have a surveyor survey your house elevations with the intention that you will have him check the elevations in a year. If there is continued settlement you may have bigger problems, but you also may be in a better position to have somebody pay to correct the problem.

You might be able to take the statement from the home builder rep to the bank.

Talk with an attorney. Understand your options.

What no engineer??? Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that you have an excellent case….well I suppose that depends on your bank account and credit score. Jurors would visit the site and not be able to see any problems except the same stucco cracks that they have at their homes. When it’s all said and done you will have paid your lawyer, expert witness and surveyor. As a bonus you will get to pay for the builder’s lawyer, expert witness(engineer) and court costs.

I don’t mean to come off as flippant or dismissive. It’s just the facts of the matter.

 

[Robert]

I remember seeing a book on "acceptable" construction tolerances......wood shrinkage, concrete slopes, tile lippage etc. I wish I could remember it.....does anyone know of a book/manual like this by a respectable orginization? Residential or commercial? Sometimes if a client just sees something in print like this, it will nip it in the bud.

 

[Sifu]

I remember seeing a book on "acceptable" construction tolerances......wood shrinkage, concrete slopes, tile lippage etc. I wish I could remember it.....does anyone know of a book/manual like this by a respectable orginization? Residential or commercial? Sometimes if a client just sees something in print like this, it will nip it in the bud.

Not sure if this is what you are referring to. I used this when I was building, gave it to all my homeowners to use as reference. It is published by the NAHB, which may give it some weight if the builder is a member. It is not code, not "enforceable", but does add some validity to the idea that we would expect a level floor. The file is too large to upload here, but I will copy in the relevant sections.

 

[ADAguy]

And, have you checked adjcant neighbors to see if similar issues exist?