Home explosions continue across the country, catastrophic trend shows no signs of stopping

[jar546]

One reason I see no reason to have natural gas or propane in anything other than a SFR.
What is the building industry doing to address this?
How much of it is infrastructure?

 

[Inspector Gadget]

The only time I've heard of home explosions is either (a) somebody done something way wrong with propane/natural gas, but more often
(b) The meth they were cooking went boom.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

In PA we are not allowed to inspect anything propane per state law. Not the piping or the appliance. I see joints in walls, missing nail plates, vents put in wrong. missing valves, unbonded piping many times but not allowed to inspect. The idea is that propane companies have their employees certified but the law does not restrict who does the work. In new houses the plumber that does the installation does not need the cert or a plumber's license here. Homeowners are always doing the work too. I got the cert myself once where I had a job delivering 100-pound propane tanks at a trailer park many years ago. I used a golf cart to deliver them. You get the cert after you watch a 15-minute film on how to do a leak test.

 

[tmurray]

We have gas inspectors here. Same as other trades.

 

[jar546]

In PA we are not allowed to inspect anything propane per state law. Not the piping or the appliance.

You are 100% incorrect and I clarified this once before when you posted this. PA L&I came out with a clarification statement on this so I don't know how you don't know this. I posted the link to L&I's statement last time. This time I would suggest you find it yourself.

 

[klarenbeek]

I wonder how many are caused by CSST that isn't bonded?

 

[Yikes]

We had a few propane tank explosions in the Sierras (Mammoth Mountain) last winter/spring. The weight of the snow pushed on some lines and regulators.

Back in the 80s my brother hired his friend to sand and refinish his wood floors of his empty house prior to move-in. Came home and found the friend sitting outside on the curb, house doors and windows wide open. Hey, what's up?

Turned out that the extension cord on the sander had wrapped around the gas valve in the kitchen, and opened it up. He had been working in the living room, taken a bathroom and nap break at the back of the house, came back out to restart that sparky floor sander, and smelled the natural gas throughout the house. He walked back to the kitchen verrry carefully, shut off the valve, then took a loong break at the curb. That was an hour before my brother showed up.
I guess he was too nervous to call the fire department (this was back in the day before cel phones).

 

[Mr. Inspector]

You are 100% incorrect and I clarified this once before when you posted this. PA L&I came out with a clarification statement on this so I don't know how you don't know this. I posted the link to L&I's statement last time. This time I would suggest you find it yourself.

If the 3 BCO's that I work with in different townships and my 2 bosses would agree with your interpretation I would not have a problem with it because I do think propane installations should be inspected. But I also think a lot of other things should be inspected that the state exempted from requiring a permit in existing houses too. If the state did go by what the IRC chapter 1 requires for permits, we would need to double the number of inspectors we have.

 

[steveray]

I wonder how many are caused by CSST that isn't bonded?

The biggest ones I have seen have had to do with the utility screwing up a regulator and sending HP gas where it shouldn't be....

 

[jar546]

In PA we are not allowed to inspect anything propane per state law. Not the piping or the appliance. I see joints in walls, missing nail plates, vents put in wrong. missing valves, unbonded piping many times but not allowed to inspect. The idea is that propane companies have their employees certified but the law does not restrict who does the work. In new houses the plumber that does the installation does not need the cert or a plumber's license here. Homeowners are always doing the work too. I got the cert myself once where I had a job delivering 100-pound propane tanks at a trailer park many years ago. I used a golf cart to deliver them. You get the cert after you watch a 15-minute film on how to do a leak test.

DIRECTLY FROM PA L&I
Any LPG requirements are superseded by the requirements of Pennsylvania’s Propane and Liquefied Petroleum Gas Act (and regulations). This Act and regulations are limited to LPG Facility which is defined as Distributors, Bulk Plants, and Industrial Users. The department fully expects building code officials to permit, inspect, and regulate as needed all aspects of LPG appliances and related tubing inside structures in the same manner as any other appliance such as natural gas or electric as required by municipality or political subdivision ordinance. To further clarify, any appliance, heater, generator, etc., which would normally require a permit or inspection from a BCO, does not become exempt simply because the fuel source is LPG.

 

[jar546]

If the 3 BCO's that I work with in different townships and my 2 bosses would agree with your interpretation I would not have a problem with it because I do think propane installations should be inspected. But I also think a lot of other things should be inspected that the state exempted from requiring a permit in existing houses too. If the state did go by what the IRC chapter 1 requires for permits, we would need to double the number of inspectors we have.

How exactly can this be misinterpreted when it comes directly from PA L&I?

DIRECTLY FROM PA L&I
Any LPG requirements are superseded by the requirements of Pennsylvania’s Propane and Liquefied Petroleum Gas Act (and regulations). This Act and regulations are limited to LPG Facility which is defined as Distributors, Bulk Plants, and Industrial Users. The department fully expects building code officials to permit, inspect, and regulate as needed all aspects of LPG appliances and related tubing inside structures in the same manner as any other appliance such as natural gas or electric as required by municipality or political subdivision ordinance. To further clarify, any appliance, heater, generator, etc., which would normally require a permit or inspection from a BCO, does not become exempt simply because the fuel source is LPG.

Maybe your 2 bosses and 3 BCOs need it drawin on construction paper with colorful crayons.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

How exactly can this be misinterpreted when it comes directly from PA L&I?

DIRECTLY FROM PA L&I
Any LPG requirements are superseded by the requirements of Pennsylvania’s Propane and Liquefied Petroleum Gas Act (and regulations). This Act and regulations are limited to LPG Facility which is defined as Distributors, Bulk Plants, and Industrial Users. The department fully expects building code officials to permit, inspect, and regulate as needed all aspects of LPG appliances and related tubing inside structures in the same manner as any other appliance such as natural gas or electric as required by municipality or political subdivision ordinance. To further clarify, any appliance, heater, generator, etc., which would normally require a permit or inspection from a BCO, does not become exempt simply because the fuel source is LPG.

Maybe your 2 bosses and 3 BCOs need it drawin on construction paper with colorful crayons.

They probably never got this letter or ignored this. I myself never got this from L & I and it is not written in UCC Act 45. Also, not mentioned when I took my BCO class years ago. Out permit tech just took the BCO class and did not know about it.

We are very reluctant to push things because we almost always loose in court for things that seem obvious to us that need permits and/or permits. Our company does not have much to gain spending time and taking someone to court and paying a lawyer for it. If even if we do end up wining in court the fine goes to the court system and we may just end up with $150 permit fee and doing a lot of extra inspections for one job.

A few years ago, a township required a propane filling station that filled small tanks at a gas station to put a no parking sign in front of it. The gas station sued with the help of the powerful help of the state propane industry and won a judgment against the township. (This had nothing to do with the building department.)

As you know the state does not require permits for houses unless they do something structural except for the few jurisdictions that the state allowed to have stricter codes. I would bet 99% of propane work done we never know anything about, especially when homeowners or their brother does the work. The contractors don't know which of these jurisdictions have these more restive codes and are reluctant to ask. I myself can't get this info in print after asking many times, I just do what the BCO of the jurisdiction tells me to do. So, unless we are on site for something else where they are doing any propane work, we would never know about it. I asked a propane installer once about it and he believed and was told by his company (and maybe some inspectors) that they did not require a permit or inspections.

That's the Keystone State and just another reason you left it.

 

[jar546]

They probably never got this letter or ignored this. I myself never got this from L & I and it is not written in UCC Act 45. Also, not mentioned when I took my BCO class years ago. Out permit tech just took the BCO class and did not know about it.

L&I does not send out notices to certified inspectors. The original statement was posted on their website a few years ago. It was a clarification because that section of Act 45 was misinterpreted, mostly by many of the idiots of the PCCA who taught so many of us and sent us down the wrong path. It is now time for everyone to do their job in Pennsylvania and stop referring back to misinformation of the past. Consider yourself informed.

 

[jar546]

 

[Joe.B]

It is now time for everyone to do their job

Next time someone dies or loses their house, sue the pants off everybody. Then you'll see everybody suddenly doing their job. That's what happened in CA over the 70's - 00's. Now we're on the other side of that hill watching the quality of inspections slowly degrade. Or in @ICE 's case, not so slowly.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Lordy. Y'know, there was a time when I thought Canadians were mired in red tape and senseless bureacracy.