Hotel Electric Room

[cda]

The UL and WHI procedures for fire rated doors do not allow a deadlock only on rated doors.This statement is accurate for the manufacturers I represent now, and all those I have represented in the past that I can recall. An inspector may allow it, but somebody (probably) violated a procedure somewhere to get a deadlock only on that door.

Deadlocks: I looked through all my appropriate catalogs, and I cannot find any that come out and say "U.L Listed 3 Hour Latch". A few of them say something like "U.L. Listed Fire Rated Auxiliary Lock".

A deadlock only in a fire rated door would be highly suspect.

It positive latches!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

and talking about a twenty minute door, also seems a little more sturdy than some of the door latches I have seen on rated doors

 

[LGreene]

I am wondering if this is the section some people use to allow a dead bolt only on a rated door, such as a janitors room , or maybe electrical room.With the idea that maybe only one person will be going in and out of it, and they will have the key to lock and unclock it, but whne locked will still meet the latching section

715.3.7.1 Latch required. Un less otherwise specifically

permitted, single fire doors and both leaves of pairs of

side-hinged swinging fire doors shall be provided with

an active latch bolt that will secure the door when it is

closed.

The need for an active latch bolt would rule out the deadbolt. They would need a latchbolt (not a deadbolt) for positive latching. If acceptable by the egress requirements, you can sometimes have a deadlock and a separate latchset, with the latchbolt providing the positive latching. There are many doors where this would not be allowed though, because most doors require a single operation to release the latch.

 

[LGreene]

+ + +Do you have input with the FCO?+ + +

I have no input on this one, but your comments will help the person who sent me the email. He is planning to meet with the hotel manager to get the situation addressed, but wanted to go into it as prepared as possible.

 

[cda]

The need for an active latch bolt would rule out the deadbolt. They would need a latchbolt (not a deadbolt) for positive latching. If acceptable by the egress requirements, you can sometimes have a deadbolt and a separate latchbolt, with the latchbolt providing the positive latching. There are many doors where this would not be allowed though, because most doors require a single operation to exit.

just wondered, somewhere over the years, thought I have seen it approved

 

[Doorman]

Basic fire door hardware requirements:

1- Anti-Friction hinges

2- Self Closing

3- Self Latching

A deadlock must be manually actuated, it is not self-latching.

A would agree with you, an inexpensive deadlock is generally sturdier than many U.L. listed latches... but they will not extend without some help from somebody.

 

[FM William Burns]

Sorry, a bit late to the party. If like in my neck of the woods I would use this:

NFPA 101 for Existing Hotels - 29.3.2.1 General. All rooms containing high-pressure boilers, refrigerating machinery, transformers, or other service equipment subject to possible explosion shall not be located directly under or directly adjacent to exits and shall be effectively cut off from other parts of the building as specified in Section 8.7.

8.7 will get you to the self-closer and rating and reductions but does not eliminate the closer. This example is very clean compared to some I have encountered.

BTW...we also require them to be locked to prevent unwanted entry by those kids playing in the halls.

 

[cda]

nfpa 80

6.4.4.3.1 Doors other than those used in means of egress shall be permitted to be provided with dead bolts in addition to the active latch bolts or as otherwise permitted by the AHJ.

6.4.4.3.2 Locks with dead bolts that are interconnected with latch bolts and retract when the latch bolt is retracted shall be permitted for use on fire doors within a means of egress.

 

[LGreene]

BTW...we also require them to be locked to prevent unwanted entry by those kids playing in the halls.

Or unwanted entry by people like me or my new friend.

Thanks for coming to the party. I wondered where you were.

 

[cda]

FROM THE OP ON LG's forum;;;

"""" This room is in the middle of the 3-story hotel that is surrounded on all four sides by a route of egress corridor that is shared with the rooms on that floor""""

 

[FM William Burns]

Exit Access, Exit and Exit Discharge

 

[cda]

ANYONE agree that the corridor should be at least 1/2 hour rated or better, and that would require the door to the electrical room to be at least twenty minute rated??????

 

[Paul Sweet]

cda, you nailed it a couple days ago.

As far as the deadlock, I believe there is a storeroom function lockset that has to be opened by a key from outside, but is always operable from the inside.

 

[cda]

Paul

Where have you been all my life, been treading water and no life preserver thrown my way

 

[imhotep]

ANYONE agree that the corridor should be at least 1/2 hour rated or better, and that would require the door to the electrical room to be at least twenty minute rated??????

Agreed assuming the building is sprinkled the corridor is 1/2 hour and the door is required to be tested according to NFPA 252 or UL 10C without the hose stream test.

 

[FM William Burns]

ANYONE agree that the corridor should be at least 1/2 hour rated or better, and that would require the door to the electrical room to be at least twenty minute rated??????

Why yes Cda...I do:

29.3.6 Corridors. 29.3.6.1 Walls.

29.3.6.1.1 Exit access corridor walls shall comply with either 29.3.6.1.2 or 29.3.6.1.3

29.3.6.1.2 In buildings not complying with 29.3.6.1.3, exit access corridor walls shall consist of fire barriers in accordance with 8.2.3 having a minimum 1/2-hour fire resistance rating.

29.3.6.1.3 In buildings protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system in accordance with 29.3.5, no fire resistance rating shall be required,

but the walls and all openings therein shall resist the passage of smoke.

29.3.6.2 Doors.

29.3.6.2.1 Doors that open onto exit access corridors, other than those complying with 8.3.4 or in buildings meeting the requirements of 29.3.6.2.2, shall have a minimum 20-minute fire protection rating in accordance with Section 8.3.

 

[LGreene]

Paul - Where have you been all my life, been treading water and no life preserver thrown my way

I didn't know you were waiting for validation, Charles!

Per table 1018.1 in the 2009 IBC, an R occupancy requires a .5-hour corridor when the occupant load is >10. This would at least be a 20-minute door even if the contents of the electrical room didn't require a higher rating. A 20-minute door has to be self-closing and self-latching.

 

[cda]

It seemed SOME people were questioning if it had to be a rated door

And could not connect the concept that the corridor had to be rated, making the electric room foot rated

But any way life goes on I am back on board the minnow for a three hour tour

 

[gbhammer]

I thought we were talking star studded 1974 major motion picture here not network television.

 

[FM William Burns]

Well I must say I like T-1018.1 since it keeps the corridor a rated assembly even in sprinkled buildings!

 

[gbhammer]

Not to hijack the thread, but if the corridor was not rated / not compliant so not by definition a corridor / could we not just call it a non-corridor, you know relabel it as an intervening space. Of course you would still need to meet travel distances but if you did why not save the cost on doors?

The whole a stair is not a stair thing has me looking at the book a bit differently.

 

[lunatick]

GB, the UBC tried to do this creating a definition for a hallway. The non UBC jurisdiction could not grasp this concept, even though it exists as Corridors are currently defined. That being a Corridor that isn't required to be rated and hence is simply an intervening room. I mean we have Exit Passageways (corridors akin to stair enclosures).

But this isn't going to change.

Just as long as those invovled with any project can be made aware that not all things are ducks, the code should have no problem being interretted, designed to an enforced. (but people tend to project their pov onto their interpretations.)