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How many exits?

Codegeek

Codegeek

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Jun 17, 2011
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717
Location
Kansas
How many exits would folks consider for the following layout:

The front of the store has two sets of entry/egress doors spaced approximately five feet apart. Between these two sets of doors, there is 242 inches for egress.

There are two additional exits separated per the overall diagonal separation, each providing 33 inches of egress width.

If the occupant load is over 1,000, four means of egress are required. Are there four provided? If so, would you still require the remaining two to be sized to carry 50% of the required egress capacity?

I see it as four means of egress, but if the main two egress doors become disabled, the remaining two means of egress do not provide for fifty percent of the required egress.

Anyone else have other ideas?
 
Are there four provided? No only 3

If so, would you still require the remaining two to be sized to carry 50% of the required egress capacity? Yes
 
up size the other doors to provide for 50%

what edition of the code is this reviewed under???

I think I can go with four exits

what kind of store/ business??????
 
I'm using the 2009 IBC. It's general retail with storage. I'm reviewing it as non-separated uses as there is storage provided as well which is in excess of ten percent.
 
What is the required egress width?

I believe you do have 4 exits. There is no required separation between all exits, just that at least two exits are separated by 1/2 (or 1/3, if sprinkler provided) the overall diagonal of the area served.

The requirement per Section 1005.1 states that the loss of any one exit shall not reduce the required capacity of 50%.

Therefore, using 1000 occupants, the required egress width is 200 inches. The loss of one door at the front (a total of 121 inches) does not reduce the required width because the remaining width of 187 inches is more than 50% of the required egress width.

Of course, this all changes if your occupant load is way more than 1000.
 
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The occupant load is 1,166 so the required egress width would be 234 inches. You don't see the loss of both doors at the front since they are only separated by five feet?
 
What if three exits are lost? What if all exits are lost? We can come up with a number of "what if" situations, but the code only requires the loss of one exit and a minimum separation between at least two exits.

You can go to the extreme that you mention, but the code, as it is currently written, does not require it.
 
I agree. However, I have seen jurisdictions argue exactly that point, that there is only one exit becuase they are too close together and thus the loss of both doors would diminish the required capacity by more than 50%. I'm trying to error on the side of caution and give the client options if it does come back as a plan review comment.
 
I would challenge them to show you where in the code it requires that all exit doors must be separated by a minimum distance.
 
The front exit doors would be 1 exit due to insufficient separation...an incident could take out the entire access to these doors.
 
TJacobs said:
The front exit doors would be 1 exit due to insufficient separation...an incident could take out the entire access to these doors.
Click to expand...
Where in the code is the "insufficient separation" of each door?

1015.2.2 Three or more exits or exit access doorways. Where access to three or more exits is required, at least two exit doors or exit access doorways shall be arranged in accordance with the provisions of Section 1015.2.1.

Not all doors
 
There are 4 exits. There is adequate diagonal separation per 1015.2.2, 2006 IBC. There is adequate exit width. 1015.2 says exits shall be obvious and unobstructed.

There are no other requirements for separation. If you add requirements, you are making up code.
 
The existing exits are compliant, ...they meet the minimums! If they want to add

additional exits, they certainly can install other exit doors and their associated

MOE components.

" IF " they are concerned about this scenario occurring or that scenario occuring,

then give them the option of installing more doors, ...ABOVE CODE! Then see

what they say. ;)

.
 
Codegeek, under the old days of SBCCI, it used to require 50% egress from the front and the remainder of the doors had to provide 67% capacity of the required egress width. Since IBC became the law of the land, if the two exit doors are five feet apart, they meet the intent of the code as additional provisions are not required for MOE.
 
TJacobs said:
The front exit doors would be 1 exit due to insufficient separation...an incident could take out the entire access to these doors.
Click to expand...
Code citation for the separation?

An incident could take out all the exits, e.g. the collapse of the roof or the hordes of the zombie apocalypse.

However, the code does not require the building to be designed to accommodate those.
 
NFPA 101 also requires for mercantile occupancies, that if the only means of customer access is provided in one wall, then two-thirds of the required egress must be through the same wall. We do work in jurisdictions that enforce both IBC and NFPA 101, hence part of the reason for the large amount of exiting in one area.

Thanks for the lively discussion!
 
I can exit through the front at only 2 locations. Each location has six 36 inch wide doors.

So does the front of a Super Wal-Mart have 2 exits or 12?
 
I consider each framed opening as an exit; so if three double doors are used, with each pair in its own frame, then each pair of doors would be an exit. If the framed opening is 18 feet wide with 6 door leaves using center pivots, then I would consider that a single exit.
 
Don't forget accessible exits......as much as I may not be warm and fuzzy about it, the remoteness only applies to the specific cases...you can't have every door be remote all the time...
 
We do work in jurisdictions that enforce both IBC and NFPA 101, hence part of the reason for the large amount of exiting in one area.
Click to expand...


Personally, in my humble opinion 101 provides better direction for egress for all occupancies and not just for fire situations hence “or other emergency condition” the fact remains regardless of one’s interpretation; separation conditions permitted as 1/2 or 1/3 by both codes can still be affected by an emergency like collapse or structural damage caused by grandma hitting the accelerator instead of the breaks, the 101 code accounts for it in:



7.5.1.3.1

Where more than one exit, exit access, or exit discharge is required from a building or portion thereof, such exits, exit accesses, or exit discharges shall be remotely located from each other and be arranged to minimize the possibility that more than one has the potential to be blocked by any one fire or other emergency condition.



That’s the way we use it!
 
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