How to calculate plumbing fixtures for a small space

[SDP]

I am evaluating a 2000 ft2 space for a Food Bank, the program calls for a pantry area for
the clients of 700ft2, a demonstration kitchen of 380 ft2, an entry area of 450 ft2, and
product storage area of 400ft2. I assume that this would be classified in IBC as use group
M rather than B and this would be an ADA compliant space, because it is located in a
public building. There will be 3 full-time volunteers, how do I determine and what would
be the fixture count? Do I subtract shelving from the pantry area to develop a net floor area?
Thanks for the assistance.

 

[cda]

Welcome

 

[cda]

I am thinking if they are not selling stuff, It can be a B

Sorry I don’t do Pennsylvania

 

[classicT]

I too think that the whole space could be classified as a B use.

OLF is a bit more tricky; keep in mind that occupancy classification and use is not always the same as the OLF. But here is how I'd break it down:

700 sf pantry; 300 gross; 3 occ; (Accessory storage)
380sf kitchen; 200 gross; 2 occ.; (Kitchen)
450sf entry/lobby; 100 gross; 5 occ; (Business area)
400sf storage; 300-500 gross; 1-2 occ; (Accessory storage or Warehouse)

Totals
1930sf; 12 occ.​

 

[SDP]

I too think that the whole space could be classified as a B use.

OLF is a bit more tricky; keep in mind that occupancy classification and use is not always the same as the OLF. But here is how I'd break it down:

700 sf pantry; 300 gross; 3 occ; (Accessory storage)
380sf kitchen; 200 gross; 2 occ.; (Kitchen)
450sf entry/lobby; 100 gross; 5 occ; (Business area)
400sf storage; 300-500 gross; 1-2 occ; (Accessory storage or Warehouse)

Totals
1930sf; 12 occ.​

Thanks..this is a different way of approaching the problem. What references are using to adjust to gross numbers, and what would be the requirements for a restroom

 

[RLGA]

Group M is for the "display and sale" of merchandise.

If the merchandise is not for sale but for distribution, then you could classify the storage area as Group S (per Section 311.1.1, 2015 IBC) and the rest as Group B; however, a change in Section 311.1.1 for the 2018 IBC allows accessory storage to be classified as part of the main occupancy regardless of size, so the storage could be classified as Group B.

If the "Pantry" space is not accessible by the public, then it, too, would be storage space, and now the total storage area exceeds 50% of the food bank's floor area, which would make it difficult to justify the total space as Group B with accessory storage.

Occupant load is based on gross floor area (excluding exterior walls), so the area of shelving would have to be included. As Ty J. points out, the determination of occupant load is not as simple as it may seem. The plumbing fixtures are based on the occupant load. Based on what Ty J. calculated, it looks like a single restroom will work since separate facilities would not be required per Section 2902.2, Exception 2 (2015 IBC), or Exceptions 2 or 4 (2018 IBC).

 

[classicT]

Group M is for the "display and sale" of merchandise.

If the merchandise is not for sale but for distribution, then you could classify the storage area as Group S (per Section 311.1.1, 2015 IBC) and the rest as Group B; however, a change in Section 311.1.1 for the 2018 IBC allows accessory storage to be classified as part of the main occupancy regardless of size, so the storage could be classified as Group B.

If the "Pantry" space is not accessible by the public, then it, too, would be storage space, and now the total storage area exceeds 50% of the food bank's floor area, which would make it difficult to justify the total space as Group B with accessory storage.

Occupant load is based on gross floor area (excluding exterior walls), so the area of shelving would have to be included. As Ty J. points out, the determination of occupant load is not as simple as it may seem. The plumbing fixtures are based on the occupant load. Based on what Ty J. calculated, it looks like a single restroom will work since separate facilities would not be required per Section 2902.2, Exception 2 (2015 IBC), or Exceptions 2 or 4 (2018 IBC).

Ron brings up an excellent point that I did not really go over. The amount of space dedicated to storage does exceed 10%, so cannot be classified as an accessory use. Building will ultimately need to be a mixed use, which given the total area, should not impact you. I'd suggest that you treat the storage areas as an S-2 use, and the balance as a B occupancy.

508.2.3 Allowable Building Area
The allowable area of the building shall be based on the applicable provisions of Section 506 for the main occupancy of the building. Aggregate accessory occupancies shall not occupy more than 10 percent of the floor area of the story in which they are located and shall not exceed the tabular values for nonsprinklered buildings in Table 506.2 for each such accessory occupancy.​

 

[classicT]

Thanks..this is a different way of approaching the problem. What references are using to adjust to gross numbers, and what would be the requirements for a restroom

IBC Table 1004.1.2

 

[SDP]

I am thinking if they are not saleing stuff

It can be a B

Sorry I don’t do Pennsylvania

What if this was Maryland? Anything you can add?

 

[SDP]

Ron brings up an excellent point that I did not really go over. The amount of space dedicated to storage does exceed 10%, so cannot be classified as an accessory use. Building will ultimately need to be a mixed use, which given the total area, should not impact you. I'd suggest that you treat the storage areas as an S-2 use, and the balance as a B occupancy.

508.2.3 Allowable Building Area
The allowable area of the building shall be based on the applicable provisions of Section 506 for the main occupancy of the building. Aggregate accessory occupancies shall not occupy more than 10 percent of the floor area of the story in which they are located and shall not exceed the tabular values for nonsprinklered buildings in Table 506.2 for each such accessory occupancy.​

Thanks for your dialogue and suggestions for direction. Let me clarify and see what this does to both of your interpretations. The location is in Maryland. The proposed space is on the lower level of an existing sprinklered, mixed use building on a college campus. The pantry currently serves students and staff, and the food products that are available are free(at least now). How does this information change your interpretations/ recommendations? Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[classicT]

Thanks for your dialogue and suggestions for direction. Let me clarify and see what this does to both of your interpretations. The location is in Maryland. The proposed space is on the lower level of an existing sprinklered, mixed use building on a college campus. The pantry currently serves students and staff, and the food products that are available are free(at least now). How does this information change your interpretations/ recommendations? Thanks for your time and interest.

Not familiar with Maryland, but looks like they are on an amended 2015 IBC. Did not look into any of your specific amendments...

With it being a mixed use building, you will need determine how the existing building complies with allowable heights and area per Ch. 5. Ultimately, you and your design professional will need to look at and address the entire building, not just your suite/area. Depending on the size of the building, could be non-separated or separated mixed use.

 

[cda]

Thanks for your dialogue and suggestions for direction. Let me clarify and see what this does to both of your interpretations. The location is in Maryland. The proposed space is on the lower level of an existing sprinklered, mixed use building on a college campus. The pantry currently serves students and staff, and the food products that are available are free(at least now). How does this information change your interpretations/ recommendations? Thanks for your time and interest.

So it is a pantry now?

Are they adding the kitchen or what??

Or just a remodel job??

What is the scope of work

 

[SDP]

Thanks for your dialogue and suggestions for direction. Let me clarify and see what this does to both of your interpretations. The location is in Maryland. The proposed space is on the lower level of an existing sprinklered, mixed use building on a college campus. The pantry currently serves students and staff, and the food products that are available are free(at least now). How does this information change your interpretations/ recommendations? Thanks for your time and interest.

Just checking...did the additional information that I added change anything from the last interpretation? Thanks to everyone for their help today.

 

[SDP]

So it is a pantry now?

Are they adding the kitchen or what??

Or just a remodel job??

What is the scope of work

Responding to your questions and comments:
1) Yes, it the existing space is currently shell space in an existing food service facility and offices on campus. The construction is a concrete pan ceiling and CMU walls in the basement of the food service facility. All spaces are have fire sprinkler system. As noted previously, the space is to be developed for food storage and distribution and..serving as a food bank.
2)The space will include a demonstration kitchen to teach students how to plan and prepare meals.
3) The overall scope is to develop the space for the uses as was previously described.
4) Separated vs. non-separated: Essentially, the spaces are on one side of a loading area in the basement level and are separated by corridors that lead to storage areas. It would appear that this would be a separated area/use. From what we know this building is fully code compliant.
Let me know if you have any more ideas....this discussion and your advise has been very helpful.
Thanks.

 

[classicT]

Responding to your questions and comments:
1) Yes, it the existing space is currently shell space in an existing food service facility and offices on campus. The construction is a concrete pan ceiling and CMU walls in the basement of the food service facility. All spaces are have fire sprinkler system. As noted previously, the space is to be developed for food storage and distribution and..serving as a food bank.
2)The space will include a demonstration kitchen to teach students how to plan and prepare meals.
3) The overall scope is to develop the space for the uses as was previously described.
4) Separated vs. non-separated: Essentially, the spaces are on one side of a loading area in the basement level and are separated by corridors that lead to storage areas. It would appear that this would be a separated area/use. From what we know this building is fully code compliant.
Let me know if you have any more ideas....this discussion and your advise has been very helpful.
Thanks.

You need an architect to explain some of what we are talking about. Mixed use is tricky, and the terms we are using mean things that you aren't grasping.

I do not mean to be blunt or demeaning, it is just simply evident that the terminology is not something you are in key with.

 

[cda]

Responding to your questions and comments:
1) Yes, it the existing space is currently shell space in an existing food service facility and offices on campus. The construction is a concrete pan ceiling and CMU walls in the basement of the food service facility. All spaces are have fire sprinkler system. As noted previously, the space is to be developed for food storage and distribution and..serving as a food bank.
2)The space will include a demonstration kitchen to teach students how to plan and prepare meals.
3) The overall scope is to develop the space for the uses as was previously described.
4) Separated vs. non-separated: Essentially, the spaces are on one side of a loading area in the basement level and are separated by corridors that lead to storage areas. It would appear that this would be a separated area/use. From what we know this building is fully code compliant.
Let me know if you have any more ideas....this discussion and your advise has been very helpful.
Thanks.

Thanks for clarifying,,,

Sometimes hard to do internet plan review.,

Not into potty talk,,,

But maybe someone can talk about near by existing restrooms,,

If those count ?????

 

[RLGA]

Restrooms nearby can be used, however, if the occupant load of the building is increased, you may be required to add fixtures.

Here's what the IEBC requires:

1. Determine the occupant load of the story before the proposed alteration work. If the space sat empty for a while, base the occupant load on what the space was originally used for.
2. Determine the occupant load of the story based on the proposed alteration. If the occupant load increases by more than 20%, then you need to add fixtures based on IPC Chapter 4 (which is identical to Chapter 29 of the IBC).
3. If the occupant load does not increase more than 20% or even decreases, then the existing fixtures serving that story are sufficient and you do not need to add fixtures.

 

[ADAguy]

Guys, guys, who are we dealing with here?
He doesn't know enough to describe the initial site constraints.
It is a T.I in an existing building on a college campus.
It is a distribution warehouse on the ground floor with other uses above.
Doesn't the campus have an architect or facilities person?
Sounds as if a single unisex RR would work.