How to determine which cooking processes produce grease laden vapors?

[Papio Bldg Dept]

I am currently performing a preliminary review for prep kitchen at a child care facility. The facility plans to use a residential combination range/oven (which is permitted under 507.2.3 of the 2006 International Mechanical Code) and microwave oven as the only appliances. All other food shall be delivered from a separate facility. The question arose whether or not they would be required to supply a commercial kitchen hood. The code states that either a Type I or Type II shall be required per the type of appliance and processes. Type I Hoods are required for ranges and ovens under 507.2.1, however the facility is stating that they will not be producing grease laden vapors during typical daily operations (admitting that there may be isolated circumstances, albeit rare). The Type II hood would be permitted if grease laden vapors were not present during operation. The following list of operation/preparation was provided:

Feeding formulas (specialized/prescription)

Edible Playdo recipes

Macaroni and Cheese

Pasta

Vegetables (steamed)

Soup

Sauces

Melting of margarine, cheese, or chocolate

Boiling eggs

Hot drinks (cocoa, cider, etc.)

Baking cookies

TV dinners

How would you determine which cooking processes produce grease laden vapors, and what Type of Commercial Cooking Hood would you require?

Any input/reasoning would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[Coug Dad]

Welcome to the board. If you use the search function you will find several threads that have discussed this. You will not find a concenous, but you will find some heated opinion. For what it is worth, it is my opinion that nothing you describe would produce grease laden vapors.

 

[cda]

The only bad one I see is melting butter, cheese, chocolate

And they could do that in oven / micro wave

Would take a letter saying they will not cook anything on top of stove that produces grease or uses grease

and if found type I will be required

And type II It

 

[JBI]

Welcome Papio B D.

Macaroni and Cheese, Soup, Sauces, Melting of margarine, cheese, or chocolate... all could produce grease vapors.

But they are just caring for other peoples children, so what's the big deal?

Just out of curiosity, what do their insurance agents say?

609.2 Where required. A Type I hood shall be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances and domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes that produce grease vapors. [M]

 

[fatboy]

Type II would be acceptable here with a permanent placard "no frying permitted".

2nd post Papio, didn't see your first, in case it hasn't been said, welcome to the forum. Visit often!

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Just out of curiosity, what do their insurance agents say? Most insurance agents I talk to want to know the what the code says. Insurance issues are one of the key points I bring up when discussing code compliance.

609.2 Where required. A Type I hood shall be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances and domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes that produce grease vapors. [M]

Which code are you quoting? Thanks for for the feedback.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Type II would be acceptable here with a permanent placard "no frying permitted".2nd post Papio, didn't see your first, in case it hasn't been said, welcome to the forum. Visit often!

I am thinking of requiring a letter from the Building Owner and Staff Administrator outlining the types of processes to be used (those permitted by a Type II hood), and the types of processes to be prohibited, such as frying, which would require the installation of a Type I Hood.

Thank you for your feedback. I am very glad to have found this site after my dissappointment from the ICC changes wore off.

 

[Dr. J]

You indicate you are using the 2006 code. If so, then you have the flexibility to determine the type of cooking and choose the appropriate type of hood.

If under the 2009 code, the fact that they have a stove/oven requires a type I - no judgement allowed. Stove/oven is defined as a "medium duty cooking appliance", and a Type I is required for all medium duty cooking appliances. Judgment is only allowed for Light Duty cooking appliances.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

How will this letter you want control future owners?

 

[cda]

" after my dissappointment from the ICC changes wore off.""""

Say it ain't so!!!!!

 

[BayPointArchitect]

I would call it a warming kitchen, require a letter of understanding/acknowledgement by the building owner and give a stern warning that if - during annual inspection - a thin film of grease is found on or around the range or oven...

...then the Type I hood and make-up air unit will be installed without exception.

 

[jim baird]

The list of menu items does not make me salivate. My heart goes out to the "inmates" there. Where's the tofu?

 

[earshavewalls]

Saw this post and had to add something. I had this come up a couple years ago. Thanks to some deep research, here's what I discovered:

NFPA-96 (Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations), Section 1.1.4 (under Scope) outlines (4) conditions under which you can operate without meeting all requirements for Commercial kitchens:

1.1.4. : This standard shall not apply to facilities where all of the following are met;

(1) Only residential equipment is being used.

(2) Fire extinguishers are located in all kitchen areas in accordance with NFPA 10, Standard for Portable Fire Extinguishers.

(3) Facility is not an assembly occupancy.

(4) The authority having jurisdiction has approved the installation.

So, the only thing preventing them from doing this without a Type 1 hood is........the AHJ.

We permitted this sort of kitchen only for small offices that use a residential ovens with cooktops, but we have not had a child care facility ask about this. Being that the facility would NOT be an assembly occupancy, I would say that if they met all 4 conditions, let them do what they wish to do.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Wayne That was a pretty common way for determinimg hood types under the Uniform codes but the I-Codes have no reference to NFPA 96 so I do not know how we could justify it especially sine the 09 codes define a stove oven as a medium duty cooking appliance.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Wayne That was a pretty common way for determinimg hood types under the Uniform codes but the I-Codes have no reference to NFPA 96 so I do not know how we could justify it especially sine the 09 codes define a stove oven as a medium duty cooking appliance.

I didn't realize that the '09 code was actually going to classify all stove ovens now. We won't make a code change until the 2012 has been vetted, so to speak, but regardless, that is great news in my opinion.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

How will this letter you want control future owners?

That is a good question that we often ask ourselves. Currently it will take some diligence on our part to track this occupancy (given that our permitting software is antiquated at best), but this allowance will be conditional to this occupancy and tenant only (my plan review notes will cover this issue and its causes for revocation), and will have to be re-reviewed should this tenant ever leave. The new software we are looking at would be able to flag this address and allow for better tracking (i.e., less sleepless nights, etc.).

 

[peach]

sounds like what I do pretty routinely at home. Nothing that can't be done with a microwave or hotplate (neither of which requires a hood).

Just saying.. .don't overthink the intent of the code

 

[Glennman CBO]

Agree w/ peach.

 

[icondrive]

I am currently performing a preliminary review for prep kitchen at a child care facility. The facility plans to use a residential combination range/oven (which is permitted under 507.2.3 of the 2006 International Mechanical Code) and microwave oven as the only appliances. All other food shall be delivered from a separate facility. The question arose whether or not they would be required to supply a commercial kitchen hood. The code states that either a Type I or Type II shall be required per the type of appliance and processes. Type I Hoods are required for ranges and ovens under 507.2.1, however the facility is stating that they will not be producing grease laden vapors during typical daily operations (admitting that there may be isolated circumstances, albeit rare). The Type II hood would be permitted if grease laden vapors were not present during operation. The following list of operation/preparation was provided:Feeding formulas (specialized/prescription)

Edible Playdo recipes

Macaroni and Cheese

Pasta

Vegetables (steamed)

Soup

Sauces

Melting of margarine, cheese, or chocolate

Boiling eggs

Hot drinks (cocoa, cider, etc.)

Baking cookies

TV dinners

How would you determine which cooking processes produce grease laden vapors, and what Type of Commercial Cooking Hood would you require?

Any input/reasoning would also be greatly appreciated.

i think your answer is Type II

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings,

If your on the 09 IMC I would say type I hood as you are dealing with a medium duty appliance without a doubt. Also, to my understanding here in Tx., residential appliances are not allowed for commercial cooking according to our county health guys. To me that takes some of the ambiguity out of translating the code in that all commercial cooking operations require commercial equipment according to them. Whether or not a child care facility constitues a commercial cooking is sometimes questioned too.

BS