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ICC Code Certification means -----

Uncle Bob

Uncle Bob

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ICC Code Certification doesn't mean that I know the code; it means that if you hand me the code book; and ask me a question:

I can find the correct answer within two minutes; 75 % of the time. :)

Uncle Bob
 
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\ said:
CC Code Certification doesn't mean that I know the code; it means that if you hand me the code book; and ask me a question:
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Uncle Bob:

Are you suggesting that the ICC get rid of open book testing and make the applicants memorize the codes? Maybe go to essay testing so the applicants have to write essays and cite code sections from memory?
 
Uncle Bob said:
ICC Code Certification doesn't mean that I know the code; it means that if you hand me the code book; and ask me a question:I can find the correct answer within two minutes; 75 % of the time. :)

Uncle Bob
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That's just perfect : )

And find what is 75% of the right answer within one hour!
 
The test doesn't mean Jack in the field. A few things come from the testing. At first I felt it was a joke and a waste of time. As time has past I now have a better handle on testing and for several reasons.

1. You do learn code content. Doesn't mean you can apply it.

2. You do become proficient with the use of the code books. Many times I have search for a section and have spent time trying to find an answer.

3. It speads up plan review after testing. For me that means money!

4. It teaches you not to shoot from the hip. Look it up. When you have a ? read the code. All the words!
 
Conarb,

"Are you suggesting that the ICC get rid of open book testing?"

Absolutely not. The 2009 IRC has added 198 pages more than the 2006 IRC. That's a 30 % increase. No one can know all the information in the codes. That's why it's so important that we learn how to read and navigate throught the codes; rather than trying to memorize the code requirements; which this and our old forum have proven time and again. No one can "know" all the code requirements.

The more Certifications you aquire through open book testing; the more proficient you become at reading and understanding the codes.

The example of the increase in pages and code changes from the 2006 to 2009 IRC; demonstrates how important it is for us to be proficient in finding answers to code questions.

As we study for the exams; we increase our knowledge and understanding of the codes. That, and as RJJ mentioned; applying what we have learned to plan reviews and inspections in the field, helps us better retain what we have learned.

I've told this story before; but, it bears repeating. One day, about 6 years ago; my daughter came into my room and said; "I'll be glad when I finish school and don't have to study any more." I looked up from my books and said; "I thought we agreed that you wouldn't interupt me when I was studying." She shruged sadly, and said; " It doesn't end does it?" I answered; "No, sweetheart it doesn't."

And, our jobs as Building Officials, Plan Reviewers and Inspectors take us beyond the information in the code books. With all the new materials and products; we must be diligent; if we are serious about our profession; and, keep up with these requirements also. We must learn and have an understanding of engineered lumber like TJIs, LVLs, truss systems, and how to read design drawings, layouts and engineer's notes on plans, and know the hardware that holds them together; in order to do our jobs. Not forgetting the new elctrical, plumbing, and HVAC products and installation instructions that we must know how to read and understand.

I know the challenges of not being in the field and trying to keep up with the everchanging codes. It's not enough to just read them; as RJJ pointed out. This forum, weekend trips to building sites, and continuing education courses have helped; but, it's not the same as the day to day hands on field work, and constant contact with the contractors who keep you on your toes and your nose in the books; and seeing the application in the field.

As we do our work; what we have learned in the "open book" test has prepared us to read and understand a lot more than is in the code book; we've learned how to research a subject and find the answers;

Within two minutes; 75 % of the time. ;)

Uncle Bob
 
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Good topic, UB. -- The more "qualified" I am, the less I know!

However, I would happily vote to have the closed book test segments restored to the Certification Tests.
 
As I stated in a different post... Every time I get a new certification, I treat it as a license to start learning!
 
UB: I love the part about studying! I just had this conversation with my youngest who is away at school. Yesterday I had the same conversation with both of my grand kids. Dad was about to take them fishing. Grand pop was not going which is not normal, but was tired from a hard day of yard work. Too many ac to care for and the bones had been rode down like an old plow horse.

I have been a student of fishing all my life. I have tried to pass on the secrets that different water bodies can hold, tides, current,temp and hatch to all of my kids. My grandson ask me once why I write things down in a little book when I am out fishing. I told him they are my memories! He said what is that? I explained to him that I note all that is worthy of the day. Size of the fish, temp, lure used,and the zone of the fish even the conversations. He then said why? My answer was I am a student. I went on to say that someday you won't catch a fish! Has that ever happened? he says yes all the time. Dose it happen when you are with me? He said no! but sometimes we don't get real big ones. My response was that is why I am still a student.

The same holds true of construction, autos and boats. The codes follow suit. The built environment is constantly in flux. New ones going up and other being taken down or altered into something quite different. Here we produce the mix that is at the heart of our profession. Testing is a mere snap shot of ones ability. Applying is something totally different. The 75% right, I had never given much thought too. I would not want to be a 75% fisherman. Personally I want 110%. So here is the personal test were studying never ends. Testing is only a measure of ones gain.

IG: It would be of interest to share a little exemplification of your thought process on closed book testing! From the tests I have taken I do not feel it would add a great deal. That being said, still have interest.
 
RJJ,

"It would be of interest to share a little exemplification of your thought process on closed book testing! "

I have taken serveral closed book tests for various licenses; some of which included hands on application; and passed all of them the first time.

The following exams were closed book tests;

In 1973 I took the Journeman's Plumbing test; and 30 days later; the Master Plumber's test for my license; and passed both the first time. Some of us are fortunate and tests seem to come easy. Also, note that I had never done any plumbing before those exams in my life; zero experience; none was required; just pass the test.

In 1987, I decided I wanted to sell real estate; and took the Real Estate Agent test; and a year later took the Broker's exam; also passed the first time.

When my wife became ill with cancer; I forgot to renew my Master Plumber's License and had to retake the Master's exam; and although I had a lot of experience running a plumbing company and doing plumbing found it much more difficult; but, passed the first time.

I decided I wanted to be a Plumbing Inspector and, I took the the Texas State Inspector's License exam. It was much easier; because I had just taken the Master Plumber's exam and the Inspector's exam didn't require hands on testing.

I have also taken and passed the Texas Home Inspector's exam, Water Supply Protection Specialist exam, Back Flow Prevention Assembly Tester exam, and Texas Code Enforcement Officer exam; all of which were closed book; and passed all the first time.

So, I do have some experience with "closed book" exams.

And, surprisingly, I find that the open book exams were more difficult for me.

I have also taken the following open book exams; and except for one; passed all of them the first time; and, am an ICC Certified;

Building Inspector, Mechanical Inspector, Plumbing Inspector, Plumbing Plans Examiner, Residential Building Inspector, Residential Combination Inspector, Residential Electrical Inspector, Residential Energy Inspector/Plans Examiner, Residential Mechanical Inspector, and Residential Plumbing Inspector.

The most difficult exam I have taken was my last; which was the Electrical Inspector; which I failed three times before passing it on the fourth attempt. I just don't like electricity; and am very cautious around it; which is probably a good thing. I've been shocked more than I care to remember. The worst, when I was working on an outside A/C unit (oops, I forgot, I was also a licensed HVAC Technician for about four months); and trusted the homeowner to turn off the correct breaker. When I regained conciousness, I had some nasty things to say; and quit doing that type of work. But, I digress.

Having taken both; I do believe that I learned more when studying for the open book exams than I did for the closed book exams.

As I stated in my previous post; the open book exam helped me learn how to navigate the codes, while teaching me the code requirements.

While the closed book exams were more of a, cramming for a test experience; and I closed my mind to the whole awful experience as soon as I walked out the door.

And, as I stated in my previous post; I believe that learning to navigate the codes and finding the answers is as important; if not more important; than memorizing the codes at the time we took the exam; and not knowing how to navigate the books to find the solutions to code questions.

Remember, we only took the test on the codes in place at that time; and not on the present codes; which have had many changes since we took the exam.

Uncle Bob
 
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Well UB always interested in your thoughts. I was thinking IG would post. Cramming for a test is most often not fruitful for the long run. Have done that quite a few times. The worst test I ever had was a Colonoscopy failed it three times. That was the apex of cramming having action news and a room full of doctors talking shop. On sorry senior moment.!

I find that with all but the accessibility test I most often answer the majority of questions with out the book. Now the tricky ones I will look up. The questions related to gas vents of pipe sizes I need the Tables. I made note also for the mechanical code test for the formulas. Sort of a speed list. I know how to do them but without looking I some times get them confused. All this talk about certs make me think I should take a test.
 
RJJ,

Sorry, didn't know what IG stood for (got it now, Inspector Gift); thought you were still addressing me, so I answered.

Uncle Bob
 
Sorry RJJ, but we are in the middle of the building season with limited staffing and I rarely get a chance to post on the board these days.... I AM NOT COMPLAINING -- it sure is better than the alternative!! It seems the CLOSED BOOK segment provides a better indicator of how much of the essential codes have been internalized. (ie., stair and handrail dimensions, exiting and emeregency escape openings, etc...)

The 100% OPEN BOOK testing has allowed persons to pass tests and obtain certifications who have had no practical knowledge or understanding of the codes (and more-often-than-not resulted in very poor inspectors).

Your comments about using the tables is a good example of why BOTH systems Open and Closed testing is my preferred method.

PS: Uncle Bob said it better than I can! I aggree with his take on this. (Thanks UB! )
 
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My company requires ICC certifications in order to get an interview. The interview (when I do it anyway) is a ride along... and I observe not inspect.

I don't care how many certifications a person has; to be an inspector for me, that person needs to teach me something.
 
Peach,

"I don't care how many certifications a person has; to be an inspector for me, that person needs to teach me something. "

I've been trying to teach you code stuff since 2002. If I haven't succeeded by now; I wouldn't have a snowball's chance of surviving in San Antonio, Texas. :D

Uncle Bob
 
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You wouldn't survive in San Antonio, Texas anyway (unless you're packing a .38 or larger).
 
If your going to require closed book exams; and, your going to judge people on the content and type of the exam they took for their certs; then, we should all be required to take a short exam on the code changes every three years; to renew our certifications. Anyone want to jump on that bandwagon?

Many people have passed the old BOCA, and SBCCI exams; that are way outdated; and converted their certs to ICC; and, what they were examined on isn't relevant any more; and that includes the 2000 I-codes. Too many changes each cycle.

Pack,

I have lived in San Antonio for several years; got a lot of relatives there. The heat and humidity are a little rough; but, never had any trouble there; back in those days I would most likely have been the reason for folks to be a little nervous.

I've mellowed over the years,

Uncle Bob
 
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then, we should all be required to take a short exam on the code changes every three years; to renew our certifications
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IAPMO does it with an open book at home or online exam. It basically addresses the code changes. It does make you look them up and read..
 
Back in the old days of ICBO, tests always had two parts: one part closed book on the things one should know without having to consult the code; and the second part was open book where the question usually involved a table, an exception or, gasp, a footnote. The open book was always more difficult for those who weren't in a mood to read the whole code section. I thought it was a better testing system than what we have with ICC, primarily because it was more in-depth, covering some obscure things, but also making the inspector-to-be think about the whole process. I agree with UB.
 
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