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ICC Hearings - Proposal E76

LGreene

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Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,153
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San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
I was checking out the Means of Egress proposals and I noticed this one:

E76 – 12

1008.1.9.7(New) [iFC 1008.1.9.7(New)]

Proponent: Bryan M Romney, Building Official, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah, representing self

Add new text as follows:

1008.1.9.7 (IFC 1008.1.9.7) Security locking arrangements. Approved special security egress locking systems shall be permitted on Group A occupancies including, but not limited to, museums, art galleries, special collections libraries and courtrooms; and Group B or M occupancies; for doors in the means of egress serving rooms or spaces where security needs of persons or building contents required such locking. Special egress locks shall be permitted in these occupancies where the building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or an approved automatic smoke or heat detection system installed in accordance with Section 907, provided that the doors are installed and operate in accordance with all of the following:

1. The doors unlock upon actuation of the automatic sprinkler system or automatic fire detection system.

2. The doors unlock upon loss of power controlling the lock or lock mechanism.

3. The door locks shall have the capability of being unlocked by a signal from an approved location that is constantly attended when the building is occupied.

4. Doors equipped with a security locking arrangement are monitored by either direct line of sight or remote monitoring from the constantly attended station.

5. A building occupant shall not be required to pass through more than one door equipped with a special security egress locking system before entering an exit.

6. The procedures for the operation of the special security egress locking system shall be described and approved as part of the emergency planning and preparedness required by Chapter 4 of the International Fire Code.

7. All security staff or persons identified in the procedures for Item 6 shall have the keys, codes, or other means necessary to operate the locking devices.

8. Emergency lighting shall be provided at the door.

(Renumber subsequent sections)

Reason: Chapter 10 does not provide a method for special locking or controlled egress except for Group I-1 and I-3 Occupancies. Other occupancy groups have needs for special locking arrangements either for securing persons or building contents. Examples include courtrooms where people poising a flight risk need special secure egress considerations. Research labs and animal housing facilities frequently require controlled egress systems such as card of biometric ingress and egress control systems. Libraries with rare book collections, art galleries, museums or mercantile occupancies where building contents area at risk of being stolen have needs for special security egress locking systems. This code addition would permit the code official to approve special locking arrangements in other occupancy groups where a demonstrated need exists. The procedure by which the special locking arrangement functions is to be reviewed and approved by the code official as outlined in Item 6. This item would allow the code official to approve special security egress locking systems under prescriptive requirement of Chapter 10 without having to approve an alternate design or method outlined in Section 104.11. This code addition represents a significantly more defensible code provisions than the more interpretive alternative design route. This code addition allows an already existing code provisions for controlled egress doors in Group I-2 occupancies to be allowed for other occupancy groups where a demonstrated need exists. No new or unproven code protocol is created in this code addition, only an existing, proven, and verified provision is being extended to other occupancy groups which for years have had critically security needs not allowed by the code.

Cost Impact: No initial construction cost impact. The IFC may require ongoing inspections of the Chapter 4 emergency planning

and preparedness protocol compliance.



This proposal would allow locks on certain Assembly occupancies along with B & M, which only unlock on fire alarm, power failure, and a signal from an attendant monitoring the location. These are not delayed egress locks, or access controlled egress doors with motion sensors, etc. I'm curious about your thoughts on this proposal. I'll be listening to the hearings tomorrow when this is discussed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This proposal would allow locks on certain Assembly occupancies along with B & M, which only unlock on fire alarm, power failure, and a signal from an attendant monitoring the location
I have been looking at fire inspections reports for just over 2 years now ( about 10 per month) and I can remember 5 that the flow switches had failed and needed to be replaced. How long had they been non-functioning 1 month, 3, 10 nobody knows except if a head discharged no fire alarm would have been triggered.

Pull stations are going away and to much reliance is assummed that a working sprinkler system I always in place.
 
I saw that proposal also......not comfortable with it myself. Leaving tomorrow first thing, we still have not started IBC-E, should soon, maybe after dinner, but we won't get that far tonight, and I'll be traveling tomorrow. Would like to hear the testimony.
 
fatboy said:
I saw that proposal also......not comfortable with it myself. Leaving tomorrow first thing, we still have not started IBC-E, should soon, maybe after dinner, but we won't get that far tonight, and I'll be traveling tomorrow. Would like to hear the testimony.
Do you know if the webcast will be archived to view later?
 
I haven't seen it in the past....................

I took a little break before the official break for dinner, got back in time for the break. We are hearing E-1 at 6:48, just so you know.
 
fatboy said:
I haven't seen it in the past....................I took a little break before the official break for dinner, got back in time for the break. We are hearing E-1 at 6:48, just so you know.
Thanks. I had to go to a meeting tonight but my buddy Kurt Roeper is in Dallas and he's going to make sure I know when E62 is up. That's a big one for the hardware industry because the 2010 ADA has a conflict regarding operating force of hardware and this would establish intent and hopefully help get the ADA conflict resolved. There are a bunch of others after that one that I'll be watching too. I have to say, the webcast is really good quality and maybe even better than being there. :)
 
I do not support the proposal as written!

I would have no issues with an allowance for delayed egress hardware with "all" existing code criteria followed for non-main exits in an Assembly in line with another code. This would provide the option to the proponent to "supervise" (secure) the egress doors that they are concerned with while providing occupants the ability to egress in a approved time frame via an approved locking means.
 
The proposal was not approved and I wholeheartedly agree. I think it crosses a line to where property starts becoming more important than life safety. I do think that there is a place for delayed egress in museums (a variance is usually required because delayed egress is not allowed in Assembly), but I don't like putting control of the locking in the hands of a human which is what this proposal would have done.
 
I agree, it's all good and fine to say someone is monitoring the exit, till they aren't..............glad it failed.

BTW, just got home. DFW airport has no free wireless, what kind of BS is that?
 
fatboy said:
I agree, it's all good and fine to say someone is monitoring the exit, till they aren't..............glad it failed.BTW, just got home. DFW airport has no free wireless, what kind of BS is that?
Same thing at Logan Airport. Annoying!
 
Lori,



(a variance is usually required because delayed egress is not allowed in Assembly)


Just for clarification, I agree with regards to IBC/IFC but…….



NFPA 101 has permitted delayed egress hardware in Assembly Occupancies “as protected” for other than main exits for a long time and there is quite a difference from “security” and allowing one’s ability to exit within a maximum of 30 seconds.



12.2.2.2.5 Delayed-egress locks complying with 7.2.1.6.1 shall be permitted on doors other than main entrance/exit doors.
 
FM William Burns said:
Lori,Just for clarification, I agree with regards to IBC/IFC but…….

NFPA 101 has permitted delayed egress hardware in Assembly Occupancies “as protected” for other than main exits for a long time and there is quite a difference from “security” and allowing one’s ability to exit within a maximum of 30 seconds.
Yes, NFPA 101 has different requirements for delayed egress. I wrote an article comparing the delayed egress requirements for the IBC and 101 if anyone is looking for a little light reading. :)

http://idighardware.com/2011/11/delayed-egress-hardware-code-comparison-2/
 
LGreene said:
The proposal was not approved and I wholeheartedly agree. I think it crosses a line to where property starts becoming more important than life safety. I do think that there is a place for delayed egress in museums (a variance is usually required because delayed egress is not allowed in Assembly), but I don't like putting control of the locking in the hands of a human which is what this proposal would have done.
Now it puts the installation, maintaining, and inspection of the electronic delayed egress lock in the hands of the human.
 
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