IEBC Addition and IBC restroom count

[ggmarch]

thanks in advance....my question is: i am doing a 2 separate additions to two separate buildings. both have an existing non-compliant restroom. one project owner wants a new accessible restroom, the other owner does not feel they need a restroom. the former is a doctor's office(556sf addition), the latter is a (930sf addition)drive-through oil change service building.

both projects increase the occupant load above 15 occupants required in "new construction" for separate facilities. but i can't find in the code where it states that when doing an addition, that the new occupant load must be added to the existing occupant load. the IEBC states the existing building does not have to meet the requirements of the current code, just the addition.

in either case, the addition needs only one restroom....would the existing restroom be sufficient? have i been reading the code wrong requiring people to bring the existing up to current code and occupancy calcs. when i can't find the passage in the code requiring it?

any help on this would be greatly appreciated

 

[Mac]

Welcome, firstly, to the best code related BB.

NY state has modified some areas of the ICC codes, so you should probably verify this...

When the doctor's addition is completed, you will have one bigger building with presumably a higher occupant load. All of those people will need compliant rest rooms - not just the occupants of the addition. I would require rest rooms and exits, etc based upon the measured "B" occupant load after completion.

The oil change building is a different critter that can be difficult to classify. Is it possible that the rest rooms might be needed for employees only, since the numbers of customers (in the vehicles) can vary widely?

 

[vegas paul]

Most oil change facilities have a lobby/waiting area for the public. This requires an accessible restroom. Additionally, they usually have an employees restroom out in the service area (where the public doesn't go), and this restroom is so the wrenchers don't have to get the public restroom all cruddy, although per code they could use the public restroom. For new construction, both would need to be accessible. For additions, if a restroom is involved, it needs to be accessible, but the existing one could remain.

 

[ggmarch]

thanks, there is only one restroom(small) on site and was upgraded per the IEBC 20% rule upgrade to the 2006 IBC several years ago. the interesting thing is that the number of employees is 6 and the addition is to add 2 more actual employees. the waiting room had 6 seats until the last alteration of the building removed 2 so they could install the accessible drinking fountain. the owner apparently was annoyed by the drinking fountain (already had a water cooler), but he wasn't upset about losing the seating since he claimed nobody hangs out in the waiting area for more than a few minutes. i've been told by the plans reviewer that the BO has the authority to wave the increased occupant count and i spoke with the BO who is very reluctant to do so. i forwarded this to the owner who then contacted his lawyer who contacted me to find verbage in the code that requires a building addition to upgrade the existing. in the mean time we suggested that the owner run a hourly count of who's there on site both working and being serviced and to get this certified and we would have a better understanding of the actual number of occupants on the site in a given day at any given time. this certified info could be given to the BO and allow him to wave the occupant count per square foot number. he's, like many local reviewers, paranoid about losing his job over some infraction so his ability to use discretion falls by the way side. i understand his point, but...

 

[mtlogcabin]

2006 IBC TABLE 2902.1 row 6 places service stations and shops under a M occupancy for fixture requirements. That is 1 occupant per 500 sq ft. Would that get you below 15 occupants if you count the shop at 1 to 500, office area 1 to 100 and waiting area counting the chairs at 4?

 

[ggmarch]

thanks, but it didn't work. just spoke with the plan reviewer and she read the commentaries (2009 IBC section 309 on M occupancy) and apparently, it states that a service station must sell gas....this place does not. so she looked up s-1 and it says quick change oil places are not a service but a repair garage. we tried to rationalize it that it isn't a repair to buy oil since technically the car is not broken and was part of the gas stations of the past to change oil.

unfortunately, the 100 sq ft per person remains. i asked why selling gas has anything to do with being service since it happens outside of the building. apparently if a garage works on cars and they bring the car into the building, that area becomes s-1.....if people come in to buy crackers and soda pop and cigarettes, then that area is counted as M occupancy.

we'll try and get a variance i guess for occupancy by arguing that M occupancy brings people into the space and that space is calculated at 500 while S-1 occupancy keeps people out of the space reducing the occupancy but the calculation is done at 5 times greater the number. the occupancy issue seems to be mixing fire safety issues with plumbing fixtures. i never could figure out why an occupancy such as storage would require so many toilets while a store selling widgets requires less.

thanks again, we gave it the old college try.

g

 

[syarn]

gg

for ur owner's lawyer....

2006 INTERNATIONAL EXISTING BUILDING CODE

1001.2 Creation or extension of nonconformity. An addition shall not create or extend any nonconformity in the existing building to which the addition is being made with regard to accessibility, structural strength, fire safety, means of egress, or the capacity of mechanical, plumbing, or electrical systems.

1002.2 Area limitations. No addition shall increase the area of an existing building beyond that permitted under the applicable provisions of Chapter 5 of the International Building Code for new buildings unless fire separation as required by the International Building Code is provided.

area drives the plumbing fixture count....

I do not think you can separate an addtion from existing unless you throw in a fire wall and separate plumbing facilities, etc...???

 

[mtlogcabin]

One more college try

[P] 2902.1 Minimum number of fixtures.

Plumbing fixtures shall be provided for the type of occupancy and in the minimum number shown in Table 2902.1 Types of occupancies not shown in Table 2902.1 shall be considered individually by the building official.

Retail stores, service stations, shops, salesrooms, markets and shopping centers

They do provide a service (change oil) and it is a shop

 

[ggmarch]

thanks again to all.......the plan reviewer is reading in the S-1 section of the commentaries and she sees the quick change oil service written in there, so she's not budging....i just have to go for a variance and hope i get it.