I'm not TRAPPED in Mexico...but I wish I was!

[Sifu]

Ok, need some personal and professional help here. I bought a condo in Mexico. I purchased it in the middle of construction, as they were building the top floor/penthouse. My unit is the top floor and penthouse rooftop. I took possession in January, and spent a couple of weeks there getting it furnished. While I was there I noticed a slight sewer gas occasionally. But, as some of you may know, that is "part of the Mexican Experience" which you can experience everywhere, and I assumed it was just a natural backdraft from the open air plumbing chase coming in the bathroom window. I am currently renting it to someone for a month, and they have informed me the odor is unbearable. Many other residents have told me they too have it (though none say it is "unbearable", so that is really in the nose of the smeller). There are a lot of problems with the plumbing as far as code is concerned, but code plays no part in MX. The two big problems I THINK are causing this are the lack of a stack vent and possibly no trap in the shower. I have not yet confirmed the trap, but from independent sources I have been told "they don't install traps in MX". I know this to be at least partially untrue, since all of the sinks have traps. I do suspect however, that there may not be traps in the showers. I had no idea this was even a possibility since I thought traps were universally accepted and installed. Ironically, on inspection I made them trap the dishwasher drain to prevent this very issue. Unfortunately, I never even considered the idea that they didn't trap the showers.

I am going back in a few weeks to assess the situation, with snake and borescope in hand. I hope to convince them to install a stack vent at the top, or at least let me do it. However, if there is no trap, it is likely impossible at this point to install one.

Each of my bathrooms drains through a horizontal branch into an open air shaft that runs from the basement (parking level) to the open air at the top of my roof (5 total levels). It may be possible to install a trap on the branch then reconnect it to the soil stack, but it will not be easy, and I may not get permission. I also may be able to install a vent at the top which may at least give the gas an easier path than back into my showers. A trap at this location would double trap the sink and toilet, but I'm not sure this is a concern as long as the new trap maintains a water seal.

There are some products out there that can be retro-fit into the shower drain that are trap seals that allow a one-way water flow, up to 12gpm (per the MFR). Has anyone seen or used one of these? Below is just one of many on the market. It is MX, and water flow isn't great so I don't think this would slow the drainage enought to be a problem, but of course I won't know until I try.


Forget code, it doesn't exist in any appreciable way in MX, and I can't use this as a basis for compelling alterations. What I am looking for is a way out of the smell, or a way to at least minimize it as much as possible, and take it from "unbearable" to "part of the Mexican Experience". Any suggestions short of citing code that I can't use will be appreciated, looking for what might work, not what might meet code.

I feel like a zero here, as avoiding this type of thing is my day job, I just never imagined a scenario such as this.

 

[e hilton]

Each of my bathrooms drains through a horizontal branch into an open air shaft that runs from the basement (parking level) to the open air at the top of my roof (5 total levels). I also may be able to install a vent at the top which may at least give the gas an easier path than back into my showers.

So the waste water dumps into a vertical chase, not a pipe, and the chase is closed at the top?

 

[mtlogcabin]

We have permitted them to be installed when the trap primer has failed in a floor drain.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

No codes sounds dangerous. Are there sprinklers? Any stair towers?

 

[north star]

$ ~ $ ~ $

"Forget code, it doesn't exist in any appreciable way in MX, and I can't use
this as a basis for compelling alterations."

Forget Code, ...really ?...........Q1): Can you get a refund ?........Q2): Do you
know any competent lawyer that is experienced with the Mexican laws,
or someone who is in the know of how to pay someone off to have the
sewer gas smell addressed and fixed ?

"I am going back in a few weeks to assess the situation, with snake and
borescope in hand...........I hope to convince them to install a stack vent at
the top, or at least let me do it, however, if there is no trap, it is likely
impossible at this point to install one."

I will respectfully disagree with you here..........It "most probably" can
be corrected........All it will take is a full sized shipping container ship, full
of money and for you to be standing there verifying the correct install
the whole time.

X - Y = Z

 

[Sifu]

Sprinklers? You mean for the grass right? 3 sets of open air stairs from basement parking to roof top (5 levels).

 

[Sifu]

$ ~ $ ~ $

"Forget code, it doesn't exist in any appreciable way in MX, and I can't use
this as a basis for compelling alterations."

Forget Code, ...really ?...........Q1): Can you get a refund ?........Q2): Do you
know any competent lawyer that is experienced with the Mexican laws,
or someone who is in the know of how to pay someone off to have the
sewer gas smell addressed and fixed ?

X - Y = Z

Getting a lawyer in MX to execute a lawsuit for a non-citizen against a builder who has no building code to sue him for not using? Not the best option. MX does have a strong consumer protection agency for foreign investment, but that is not the preferred path if I can resolve the situation peacefully. At this point I am nothing but a complaining owner 2,000 miles away. When I go down and investigate and can lead the engineer around maybe they will have solutions I haven't thought of, but I am not optimistic. I have found out this is the norm. The only good thing is I still hold 10% of the purchase price, which may give some leverage to either get them to fix it or allow me to have it fixed correctly.

 

[Sifu]

We have permitted them to be installed when the trap primer has failed in a floor drain.

Yes, that is the only place I have heard of them. I bought two models to try at home before I go down to see how much drainage they can handle.

 

[north star]

% ~ %

You WILL have an engineer accompany you when you go and visit ?
I would think they would be "in the know" about such things.

% ~ %

 

[Sifu]

% ~ %

You WILL have an engineer accompany you when you go and visit ?
I would think they would be "in the know" about such things.

% ~ %

If it gets to that, I may. But I have to lay eyes on it before I go much further. My building is the final of 5. A small complex, which has been built over 20+ years. I remain hopeful (but not optimistic) that this can be a simple fix. I am worried now that I have learned traps aren't the norm down there, so if I don't have them I will look for the simplest and most effective way to fix it. They can't install a trap at the shower without lowering the ceiling over the units below and re-plumbing everything. They would be putting themselves at risk of every single unit coming back on them if they did this, which means they won't even entertain it. Maybe putting one on the branch before it drops?? Maybe putting in a stack vent?? Maybe a barrier such as the one I posted?? Maybe they buy it back from me?? There is no simple fix as far as putting a trap at the showers. The construction is reinforced masonry and concrete. No cavities, and not thick enough to allow a trap even if they wanted to.

 

[ICE]

You might be able to eliminate sewer gasses from entering your condo but the rest of the condos will still have the problem…and by extension, so will you. This is a serious health concern.

 

[Sifu]

So the waste water dumps into a vertical chase, not a pipe, and the chase is closed at the top?

No. The waste is a 4" stack that runs down the chase. There are no cavities since it is all concrete and masonry so they use these shaft to house all the piping.

 

[Sifu]

FYI, still trying to figure this out. The plumbing problems here a too many to mention, but mitigating them all is impossible. I have to work on the sewer smell or the unit is unusable at times.

There is a mechanical shaft that all the plumbing runs into. Each of my two main floor baths have a separate shower drain into this shaft. There are not traps on the shower drains, just a device comprised of a cap that is supposed to seal off the gas. It doesn't! However, for one shower drain, it exits the wall into the shaft, turns 90° to a horizontal run of about 3'. There is room to install a running trap. On the other it exits and turns immediately downward into the common drain. I think a p-trap could be installed then turn back into the drain. These are about the best options I can come up with. The shower drains are about 24" from the shaft walls. There are vents, not good, but I think workable.

FYI, the device I mentioned does work. I used it in the showers and it drains well, but it is a temporary solution at best. I want a more sustainable fix.

Guest bath


Main bath

 

[north star]

# = $ = #

Sifu, ...thanks for the update on your condo dilemna.
Per chance, were you able to meet an engineer there ?

On your proposed P-Trap installs, will you be doing
the work or someone else ?

# = $ = #

 

[Plumb-bob]

I worked for a couple of months on a beach side development in Nuevo Vallarta, and I did not notice too many building codes being followed.

The concrete batch plant was 2 thick Mexicans out in the sun swinging buckets of sand, cement etc. into the mixer for 10 hours at a time.

 

[steveray]

If you need to vent your traps it looks like you could fit AAV's.....

 

[Sifu]

# = $ = #

Sifu, ...thanks for the update on your condo dilemna.
Per chance, were you able to meet an engineer there ?

On your proposed P-Trap installs, will you be doing
the work or someone else ?

# = $ = #

HAH! I am waiting on them right now. They are supposed to meet me today....but time is different down south, and I don't mean time zone. I will not be doing the work, they will as it is under warranty (still not sure it means the same to them as it does to me but my realtor and lawyer says it does.).

Look down the drain, notice the water held outside the pipe. about 1" deep, the cap sits over the pipe and extends into the water a little, which is supposed to "trap" the gas.


This is the cap.




This is the top of the shaft entered from my roof top

 

[Sifu]

Finally, this part doesn't stink. Only thing between me and the beach is a golf course (middle of the fairway below) and a hotel or two.

 

[north star]

& & = & &

Thanks for the update & pics. ** Sifu ** !..........For the moment, setting aside
the warranty, ...could you hire your own plumber to make the necessary
repairs, so that you do not have any sewer gas smells ?........REASON:
"Under warranty" may or may not mean being resolved quickly.

Q): Do you have any type of "Release from Purchase" clause, because of
the conditions ?

= = & = =

 

[Sifu]

It can be sticky to fix it with my own people because this is a tightly controlled HOA, but if they won't fix it I am going to try and get authorization to fix it myself and deduct the cost from my final payment. As far as release, not sure I would need it because the prices have increased 100% since I purchased it...they would be happy to buy it back, but yes, I could be released for conditions. I will fix it myself in the dead of night before I go that route, too much at stake.

 

[MtnArch]

Sifu .. without a permit?!?!?!? ;-)

 

[Joe.B]

Oh I'm sure he could get a "permit" no problem. Just head on down to the local g man and they'll gladly take your money.