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Indoor Playground Egress

LGreene

LGreene

REGISTERED
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,165
Location
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
I posted some photos on my blog last night of an indoor playground that I visited, which was in an industrial park. I could tell by some of the doors that it had been a lab space or some type of facility with a clean room, so I'm guessing a Business occupancy. It is now Assembly - a giant open playground inside an almost-empty building. Someone posted a question on my site and I know some of you will be able to give us some insight.

If there was no construction involved with the retrofit of the space, and therefore no building permit, would a new business typically need to be inspected by the fire marshal? How does that get initiated? The doors do not have panic hardware and one of the exits was blocked.

http://idighardware.com/2012/05/indoor-playground/
 
Change of occupancy would almost always require some form pf permitting - to cover administrative cost for a new certificate of occupancy.

Greenville County has a "Change of Tenant" permit/inspection they use to facilitate this and ensure "eyes" are on the space prior to and when a new business moves in.
 
This situation is clearly a change in occupancy/use from an Industrial/F to an Assembly/A. The change creates a greater life safety hazard due to the potentials for assembly occupant load numbers and therefore would require inspection by both the building officials and fire inspection officials. In many communities this may even require a new C of O. I have counted over 11 deficiencies at a glance.
 
used to run a space three times this size on the weekends...if they have a minimum of 4 birthday parties (typical Saturday) at a time, I could easily see having over 200 occupants. If they don't, they probably won't be open very long. Add to that, if they have a kitchen/food area/cake rooms, you need to ask whether your AHJ will classify them as an A2, or A3?

P.S. I don't recommend being in one of these places on a Saturday morning.
 
Thanks everyone. I haven't heard anything back from the facility. I always feel weird in this situation...should I escalate or am I just being a busy-body? If I complain to the fire marshal or building inspector, I'll be saying that they didn't do their job in the first place.
 
LGreene said:
Thanks everyone. I haven't heard anything back from the facility. I always feel weird in this situation...should I escalate or am I just being a busy-body? If I complain to the fire marshal or building inspector, I'll be saying that they didn't do their job in the first place.
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And saying that would be true. The AHJ should have their mistake pointed out before someone dies because of it.
 
I wouldn't "blame" the AHJ or say they didn't do their job (unless they didn't)...I know we probably have tenants come and go that I never even know about, change of use or not...Too much uneducation on the other side of the fence on code and safety. Property owners/ real estate people/ tenants just do not realize that just because a building exists and has some form of CO, that you can not just put whatever you want in them.....
 
LGreene said:
If I complain to the fire marshal or building inspector, I'll be saying that they didn't do their job in the first place.
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Not unless that is your intention. There are plenty of fingers to be pointed in this example for any number of reasons. Ask yourself whose responsibility is it to contact the AHJ. If you are working on behalf of your client, you may wish to politely, and with a just try to help you out down the road tone, point out some obvious practical code and design issues you have noticed (citing specific egress situations in the event of a fire is good start - gets them thinking). Ask the client if they have contacted the AHJ for a CO, or met with the Fire Marshall to set up a courtesy visit to make sure they are in compliance with current requirements. Even though it is an after the fact situation, reaching out to the AHJ before they find out may open the window for the AHJ to not shut them down immediately. Most clients want to do the right thing, but want it to be easy and cheap. We can't always make it cheap, but we can make the compliance process more accessible and easier for business owners.
 
steveray said:
I wouldn't "blame" the AHJ or say they didn't do their job (unless they didn't)...I know we probably have tenants come and go that I never even know about, change of use or not...Too much uneducation on the other side of the fence on code and safety. Property owners/ real estate people/ tenants just do not realize that just because a building exists and has some form of CO, that you can not just put whatever you want in them.....
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I work in a jurisdiction small enough that this would not go unnoticed for long. I suppose there are many building officials who don't have that luxury. Also we have a fantastic fire marshal who inspects buildings such as this on an annual basis, so unless they have only been there a couple of months, he would have found out about it and brought us on board to gain compliance.
 
The codes have gotten very complicated over the years. I am surprised more stuff does not get missed during inspections.
 
LGreene said:
Thanks everyone. I haven't heard anything back from the facility. I always feel weird in this situation...should I escalate or am I just being a busy-body? If I complain to the fire marshal or building inspector, I'll be saying that they didn't do their job in the first place.
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Forget the busy body excuse. You are an expert and a professional at doing your job which includes life safety issues. Pursue it with the owners by a personal visit, then call your buds at the fire marshall's office if there is still no concern.

I'm betting the was no inspection as previously stated.
 
Agree with the others, you are not being a busybody, you are a professional who has noted a problem. A well placed phone call to the Building Official/Fire Marchall as a "heads-up" would be in order.
 
steveray said:
I wouldn't "blame" the AHJ or say they didn't do their job (unless they didn't)...I know we probably have tenants come and go that I never even know about, change of use or not...Too much uneducation on the other side of the fence on code and safety. Property owners/ real estate people/ tenants just do not realize that just because a building exists and has some form of CO, that you can not just put whatever you want in them.....
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Well, I would never actually say, "You didn't do your job," but I feel like by pointing out something that they must have missed if there was an inspection, I'm exposing their error. It's just an area where I have to tread carefully. I have contacted fire marshals regarding a few other things in the last year or so, and most of the time they have thanked me for bringing the issue to their attention. The only one that I got no response on was the Miami Beach hotel with unbelievably bad fire doors - neither the fire marshal or the hotel manager got back to me.
 
Papio Bldg Dept said:
Not unless that is your intention. There are plenty of fingers to be pointed in this example for any number of reasons. Ask yourself whose responsibility is it to contact the AHJ. If you are working on behalf of your client, you may wish to politely, and with a just try to help you out down the road tone, point out some obvious practical code and design issues you have noticed (citing specific egress situations in the event of a fire is good start - gets them thinking). Ask the client if they have contacted the AHJ for a CO, or met with the Fire Marshall to set up a courtesy visit to make sure they are in compliance with current requirements. Even though it is an after the fact situation, reaching out to the AHJ before they find out may open the window for the AHJ to not shut them down immediately. Most clients want to do the right thing, but want it to be easy and cheap. We can't always make it cheap, but we can make the compliance process more accessible and easier for business owners.
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No, that definitely wouldn't be my intention. I have the utmost respect for code officials. There is so much to know...I can barely keep it together with just the door-related requirements. In this case the facility isn't my client, it's just a place that I visited with my family. I guarantee that nobody else is going to contact the AHJ because very few people would notice the issues. It always comes down to a question of whether I could live with myself if I didn't say something and there was a problem that could have been prevented.
 
Ok - add the indoor playground to the list of places I'm not welcome - I just sent an email to the fire chief. My kids are going to kill me.

I think I'm going to have to stop contacting the business owners first because that never seems to work and then I'm no longer anonymous.
 
I got a response from the chief. He said that he and the building inspector did an inspection prior to opening and these issues were addressed with the business owners. Apparently, the business owners didn't take heed, which is probably why they didn't respond to me either. He's going to have the fire prevention officer follow up.
 
Thanks Lori! Great job on following up.

Personally, I think you did the right thing. I can barely get 9 six year old kids to line up at the end of baseball game to shake hands...I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to get their attention in the event of a fire.

When you support honesty and integrity in business, the business community tends to recognize the competitive edge that comes with those traits.
 
LGreene said:
Well, I would never actually say, "You didn't do your job," but I feel like by pointing out something that they must have missed if there was an inspection, I'm exposing their error. It's just an area where I have to tread carefully. I have contacted fire marshals regarding a few other things in the last year or so, and most of the time they have thanked me for bringing the issue to their attention. The only one that I got no response on was the Miami Beach hotel with unbelievably bad fire doors - neither the fire marshal or the hotel manager got back to me.
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:o Next time you call don't play concerned citizen. Next time ask what version of the codes they are under and throw in a few "Shall be's ". You know, make them think you know your stuff. ;)

Also, next time, don't stay there.
 
"You know, make them think you know your stuff."

It will be easy for Lori to make them think that she knows her stuff... cuz she duz! ;-)
 
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