We have an application for an indoor soccer facility that the applicant is proposing in an existing 14,000 sf building. The field alone is approx 11,000sf. Using the factor of 50 ("exercise" from T1004.1.1) that gives us an occupant load of 220. While I understand that in reality 220 people will not be on the field at the same time I would like to see a higher occupant load then the 14 that the applicant is proposing (6 on ea team with two refs). I know that indoor soccer facilities typically host b-day party's, end of the season party's etc which usually ends up with full teams and parents out there running around. In addition, you have the spectator seating which in this configuration I calculate at approx 120. My question is per the Exc of IBC 1004.1.1 what is a reasonable way to determine the occupant load for the field? Our zoning code requires the number of parking per the occupant load determined by the building code - they would have to add a lot of parking... On the plus side the building was constructed in 2008, sprinklered, panic hardware, exit signs, emergency lighting, 4 exits, etc.
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Indoor Soccer
- Thread starter JMG
- Start date
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Indoor Soccer
Design the building egress and plumbing fixtures for the largest number. Post the occupant load for "Soccer games use" If they use the building for other things, parties, dances oh well nobody ever died because there wasn't enough parking at an event.
Design the building egress and plumbing fixtures for the largest number. Post the occupant load for "Soccer games use" If they use the building for other things, parties, dances oh well nobody ever died because there wasn't enough parking at an event.
Re: Indoor Soccer
is there only one field???
I could see maybe hitting it with 50 occupant load, because more than likley it might say be used for two teams practicing, where you are going to have more people on the field at one time.
whatever number you settle on, would post on occupant load sign as for soccer use only as stated above.
or just split it in half 110??
is there only one field???
I could see maybe hitting it with 50 occupant load, because more than likley it might say be used for two teams practicing, where you are going to have more people on the field at one time.
whatever number you settle on, would post on occupant load sign as for soccer use only as stated above.
or just split it in half 110??
Re: Indoor Soccer
Yes, just one field. I understand that the egress requirements, plumbing fixtures, etc should be calcualted based on the larger number - I'm leaning on documenting the fact that based on the XX O/L factor the occupant load would be XXX, but because of the parking requirements the occupant load is limited to XX - and have that number posted.
Yes, just one field. I understand that the egress requirements, plumbing fixtures, etc should be calcualted based on the larger number - I'm leaning on documenting the fact that based on the XX O/L factor the occupant load would be XXX, but because of the parking requirements the occupant load is limited to XX - and have that number posted.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Indoor Soccer
Do not restrict the occupant load based on the parking. Using a zoning ordinance to determine the occupant load of a building is looking for trouble. Let zoning enforce their rules when and if a violation occurs.
Do not restrict the occupant load based on the parking. Using a zoning ordinance to determine the occupant load of a building is looking for trouble. Let zoning enforce their rules when and if a violation occurs.
JBI
Registered User
Re: Indoor Soccer
mtlog - Don't forget... Some of us ARE Zoning!
mtlog - Don't forget... Some of us ARE Zoning!
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Indoor Soccer
My point is in this post zoning has a requirement based on the building departments determination of the OL of the building. So who is the bad guy when the project does not work. The building department.
That's a bad way to determine parking, Zoning regulations govern uses within certain districts, Parking numbers should be based on the sq ft of the uses within the building or out side and not the occupant load of the building.
Do you determine the occupant load of an outdoor soccer field? I doubt it so how do they determine the parking requirements then?
Planners are visionary and code officials are regulatory
My point is in this post zoning has a requirement based on the building departments determination of the OL of the building. So who is the bad guy when the project does not work. The building department.
That's a bad way to determine parking, Zoning regulations govern uses within certain districts, Parking numbers should be based on the sq ft of the uses within the building or out side and not the occupant load of the building.
Do you determine the occupant load of an outdoor soccer field? I doubt it so how do they determine the parking requirements then?
Planners are visionary and code officials are regulatory
georgia plans exam
Silver Member
Re: Indoor Soccer
If you are using the 2006 IBC, you could use the exception to Section 1004.1.1 where it says; "Where approved by the building official, the actual number of occupants for whom each occupied space, floor or building is designed, although less than those determined by calculation, shall be permitted to be used in the determination of the design occupant load".
I wouldn't use this for exiting or any life safety provisions but maybe it could be used for zoning.
GPE
If you are using the 2006 IBC, you could use the exception to Section 1004.1.1 where it says; "Where approved by the building official, the actual number of occupants for whom each occupied space, floor or building is designed, although less than those determined by calculation, shall be permitted to be used in the determination of the design occupant load".
I wouldn't use this for exiting or any life safety provisions but maybe it could be used for zoning.
GPE
georgia plans exam
Silver Member
Re: Indoor Soccer
Also, I agree with mtlogcabin. Here, parking is regulated by square footage and use of the building, not occupant load.
GPE
Also, I agree with mtlogcabin. Here, parking is regulated by square footage and use of the building, not occupant load.
GPE
Yikes
Gold Member
Re: Indoor Soccer
JMG - no offense, but your zoning code is poorly written if it is relying on the building code for a determination of required parking spaces. The underlying assumption in your zoning code is that the building code has some reasonable correlation between life-safety exiting issues vs. the number of occupants that arrive via private automobile... not by bus or taxi or bicycle or walking ,etc. Therefore, this shortcut in your zoning code is potentially inconsistent with the transportation elements of your community's General Plan.
I would not tamper with your building code. If I were the architect, I would see if there is some exception in the zoning code that would allow me to submit a parking study or something that could justify a different ratio.
JMG - no offense, but your zoning code is poorly written if it is relying on the building code for a determination of required parking spaces. The underlying assumption in your zoning code is that the building code has some reasonable correlation between life-safety exiting issues vs. the number of occupants that arrive via private automobile... not by bus or taxi or bicycle or walking ,etc. Therefore, this shortcut in your zoning code is potentially inconsistent with the transportation elements of your community's General Plan.
I would not tamper with your building code. If I were the architect, I would see if there is some exception in the zoning code that would allow me to submit a parking study or something that could justify a different ratio.
brat
Bronze Member
Re: Indoor Soccer
Fortunately for us the amount of parking is determined by the zoning ordinances. The building side only looks at the accessibility features.
When I drive by the soccer fields around here when tryouts are going on it sure looks like there a a couple of zillion kids out there. Without more information, I'd lean toward the highest occupancy load. It doesn't matter that most of the time only a few will be on the field. It's on those occasions when many are on the field that some bad might happen.
Fortunately for us the amount of parking is determined by the zoning ordinances. The building side only looks at the accessibility features.
When I drive by the soccer fields around here when tryouts are going on it sure looks like there a a couple of zillion kids out there. Without more information, I'd lean toward the highest occupancy load. It doesn't matter that most of the time only a few will be on the field. It's on those occasions when many are on the field that some bad might happen.
FyrBldgGuy
Silver Member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 356
Re: Indoor Soccer
This issue comes up more often every year. Soccer teams practice and then they have games. So if they have games, then both teams may have spectators. Kids soccer often involves parents, brothers and sisters, etc. Multiply the number of players for two teams by 2.5, then add 1.5 relatives and friends to get the expected number of occupants. After that is complete, figure that at least two special events a year will occur (such as a political rally in a voting year). Set the number of occupants to 100 and require a special permit for any other type of event.
It is more than likely an indoor soccer field has a metal framed fabric cover, without sprinkler systems due to the weight of pipe.
This issue comes up more often every year. Soccer teams practice and then they have games. So if they have games, then both teams may have spectators. Kids soccer often involves parents, brothers and sisters, etc. Multiply the number of players for two teams by 2.5, then add 1.5 relatives and friends to get the expected number of occupants. After that is complete, figure that at least two special events a year will occur (such as a political rally in a voting year). Set the number of occupants to 100 and require a special permit for any other type of event.
It is more than likely an indoor soccer field has a metal framed fabric cover, without sprinkler systems due to the weight of pipe.