• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

investment property - 2 existing apartments and 1 bar - convert bar to 3rd apartment

2

2MCHPWR

Registered User
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
6
Location
orange county, NY
hi all :)
what a great site. Searching and learning a ton.
I am in contract review for a property in orange county, NY.
The building is as stated in topic:
2 existing apartments
1 bar
The bar has ben closed since March due to COVID. My intension is to convert it to an apartment.
As per town records:
  • Property Class: 483 - Converted Residential
  • Site Property Class: 220 - 2 Family Res and 483 - Converted Res
  • Site: Res 1 and Com 1
  • In Ag. District: Yes (2)
  • Zoning Code: AR – agriculture/residential
I own 7 units but never went through a change of use. I'm having second thoughts due costs from what i'm reading about because of the sprinkler system.
But i'm not sure i need a sprinkler system and am here looking for input.
The apartments are directly above the bar.
Do i need sprinklers in the "bar" area or in all 3 apartments?
in the bar ceiling, if i use double fire proof sheetrock, can i skip the sprinklers?

The property uses well water so if i need a sprinkler, there will be a huge water tank, probably in the basement.

Thanks for any input you may have.
 
The best person to answer if you need a fire sprinkler or not, is the building offical or whatever you call the person that does building permits there, if there is one.

Normally you have to sprinkle the entire building, no matter what.
 
Before meeting with the building official, try to find out:
When the building was built
What code it was built under, or if it was built before a code was adopted
When it was converted to mixed use
What code it was converted under, or if it was converted before a code was adopted
If it was built or converted under a code that required residential sprinklers
Whether the NY code has an exception for sprinklers in smaller residential buildings not on public water.
 
You may just need sprinklers it in the new apartment per IEBC but this is not NJ code.

1012.2.1 Fire sprinkler system. Where a change in occupancy
classification occurs or where there is a change of
occupancy within a space where there is a different fire
protection system threshold requirement in Chapter 9 of
the International Building Code that requires an automatic
fire sprinkler system to be provided based on the new
occupancy in accordance with Chapter 9 of the International
Building Code, such system shall be provided
throughout the area where the change of occupancy
occurs.
 
hi - The structure was built in 1920 as per town but i don't think that matters from what i'm reading.
section R313 from the 2020 Residential Code of New York State which looks promising but I feel like my building is NOT covered under the residential code as per the section on scope, 101.2 (below); it says nothing of more than 2 family dwellings:

R101.2 SCope
1. detached 1 family
2. detached 2 family
3. townhouses
4 bed and breakfast
5. live/work units
6. owner occupied lodging houses

Instead, I think my building is covered under 2020 building code of NY State because it says “more than 2 units…”; see “Apartment houses” below:

310.3 Residential Group R-2:
....occupancies containing sleeping units or more than two dwelling units including.... apartment houses.


And since my building is Group R-2 as per above…
the 2020 building code of NY State [F] 903.2.8 Group R:
An automatic sprinkler system installed shall be provided throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area.

So am I therefore required to install sprinkler system based on above?
 
For what it is worth, I would require one of the following:
(1) Separate the existing two apartments above from the new apartment below with one-hour fire-rated assembly. Sprinkle the entire building.
(2) Separate the existing two apartments above from the new apartment below with two-hour fire-rated assembly. Sprinkle only the new apartment and leave the existing two apartments alone.

ICC Certified Plan Reviewer
NFPA Certified Fire Plan Examiner
 
ADAguy said:
Making ground floor unit accessible?
Click to expand...
the bar is on the ground floor and it is accessible. Future plan is change bar to 3 bedroom apartment still on first floor and with it's own entrance (not shared with other 2 units; the other 2 units are above the bar and have their own separate entrances).
 
2MCHPWR said:
hi - The structure was built in 1920 as per town but i don't think that matters from what i'm reading.
section R313 from the 2020 Residential Code of New York State which looks promising but I feel like my building is NOT covered under the residential code as per the section on scope, 101.2 (below); it says nothing of more than 2 family dwellings:

R101.2 SCope
1. detached 1 family
2. detached 2 family
3. townhouses
4 bed and breakfast
5. live/work units
6. owner occupied lodging houses

Instead, I think my building is covered under 2020 building code of NY State because it says “more than 2 units…”; see “Apartment houses” below:

310.3 Residential Group R-2:
....occupancies containing sleeping units or more than two dwelling units including.... apartment houses.


And since my building is Group R-2 as per above…
the 2020 building code of NY State [F] 903.2.8 Group R:
An automatic sprinkler system installed shall be provided throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area.

So am I therefore required to install sprinkler system based on above?
Click to expand...
The R codes do not apply.
 
ADAguy said:
Making ground floor unit accessible?
Click to expand...
Don't know NY code but the IBC only requires type B accessible units when there is 4 or more apartments in a building and no type A units until you get over 20 apartments (IBC 1107.6.2.2.2)
But it would be easier to rent if you make it accessible
 
jar546 said:
Because you are not a single-family home, a two family home or a townhouse.
Click to expand...
oh yes i agree with you. The building isn't R code in the 2020 Residential Code of New York State but it is 310.3 Residential Group R-2 of 2020 Building code of NY State. right?
 
2MCHPWR said:
oh yes i agree with you. The building isn't R code in the 2020 Residential Code of New York State but it is 310.3 Residential Group R-2 of 2020 Building code of NY State. right?
Click to expand...
A use and occupancy code has nothing to do with citing R codes, aka IRC vs IBC. You have a commercial building.
 
Does New York use the Existing Building Code? If so, you might only have to sprinkle the converted part of the building.

It's possible, but not likely, that you might be allowed to leave the building unsprinklered if it was originally all apartments.
 
This is a magnificent region for investing in real estate. I am also thinking of buying properties there. That region's real estate prices are growing extremely fast, so buying there is a good idea. I have invested in some stocks with the help of altinvestor.net, and I am thinking of getting some money from the stocks so I can also start investing in real estate.
Sincerely investing in real estate is much safer than investing in stocks because a property price is rarely going down because it is always going up.
 
2MCHPWR said:
hi - The structure was built in 1920 as per town but i don't think that matters from what i'm reading.
section R313 from the 2020 Residential Code of New York State which looks promising but I feel like my building is NOT covered under the residential code as per the section on scope, 101.2 (below); it says nothing of more than 2 family dwellings:

R101.2 SCope
1. detached 1 family
2. detached 2 family
3. townhouses
4 bed and breakfast
5. live/work units
6. owner occupied lodging houses

Instead, I think my building is covered under 2020 building code of NY State because it says “more than 2 units…”; see “Apartment houses” below:

310.3 Residential Group R-2:
....occupancies containing sleeping units or more than two dwelling units including.... apartment houses.


And since my building is Group R-2 as per above…
the 2020 building code of NY State estate agents wapping[F] 903.2.8 Group R:
An automatic sprinkler system installed shall be provided throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area.

So am I therefore required to install sprinkler system based on above?
Click to expand...
Hi, I want to rent my flat which is built similarly to yours. What do you suggest that we should rent it out or sell it? It's in one of the most expensive areas of the UK, especially London and it's Wapping. Many lads have suggested we sell it out but I wanna give it a try by renting and know how much I can earn from it. Anyways, also need your suggestions regarding the best real estate agents in Wapping. Cheers,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top