tmurray
SAWHORSE
Here, they would just be required to install a handrail.lpiburn said:
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Is a guard required?
- Thread starter retire09
- Start date
tbz
Silver Member
Here is my questions to the situation:
1.) At what point does one consider the glass in a wall a window or a guard?
The way I interpret the difference is frame fixed and exposed edges, thus if the glass is in a wall that reaches the ceiling and none of the edges of the glass are exposed to the walking surface side then you can't count the glass as a guard, and is a window and thus once above 18", even if 18-1/8" the trigger is met and thus not required.
2.) However, what if the glass is in a wall that reaches above door minimum heights and the glass edge on top is exposed?
Some have told me that they release the trigger from guard to a window in a wall at minimum door height, this is judgmental and open for interpretation however, if you then try to apply the guard load requirements to a pane of glass 80" high and only secured by clips at the bottom, good luck.
3.) Mark, the guard requirement in your link is specific to operable windows only not fixed and thus irrelevant to the situation unless the poster glass panels are operable? ButHere is a question for you, why would anyone install windows that don't meet safety glazing requirements, its only money right?
4.) If the trigger to safety in your concern is the glass not being tempered, then just challenge it and ask them to explain why they believe it meets the code. If their information is correct then pass it. This is what I call an inspectors wish list.
Example: Client installed 16, 42" landings with 6 inch risers one after the other from the front landing to the driveway. Inspector asked them what they were doing for handrails on the steps (IRC 2009), client installed the handrails saying inspector wanted them and would not pass. At the final inspection when questioned inspector said I did not measure the treads to see if they were more than 36" and asked about the handrails on the treads, if the homeowner had said to me we built repetitive landings so we did not have to install handrails, I would have said, you know you are right and it would of ended right there. It is not against code to ask what they are doing about something you believe should be there however, requiring it is another story.
JMO
1.) At what point does one consider the glass in a wall a window or a guard?
The way I interpret the difference is frame fixed and exposed edges, thus if the glass is in a wall that reaches the ceiling and none of the edges of the glass are exposed to the walking surface side then you can't count the glass as a guard, and is a window and thus once above 18", even if 18-1/8" the trigger is met and thus not required.
2.) However, what if the glass is in a wall that reaches above door minimum heights and the glass edge on top is exposed?
Some have told me that they release the trigger from guard to a window in a wall at minimum door height, this is judgmental and open for interpretation however, if you then try to apply the guard load requirements to a pane of glass 80" high and only secured by clips at the bottom, good luck.
3.) Mark, the guard requirement in your link is specific to operable windows only not fixed and thus irrelevant to the situation unless the poster glass panels are operable? ButHere is a question for you, why would anyone install windows that don't meet safety glazing requirements, its only money right?
4.) If the trigger to safety in your concern is the glass not being tempered, then just challenge it and ask them to explain why they believe it meets the code. If their information is correct then pass it. This is what I call an inspectors wish list.
Example: Client installed 16, 42" landings with 6 inch risers one after the other from the front landing to the driveway. Inspector asked them what they were doing for handrails on the steps (IRC 2009), client installed the handrails saying inspector wanted them and would not pass. At the final inspection when questioned inspector said I did not measure the treads to see if they were more than 36" and asked about the handrails on the treads, if the homeowner had said to me we built repetitive landings so we did not have to install handrails, I would have said, you know you are right and it would of ended right there. It is not against code to ask what they are doing about something you believe should be there however, requiring it is another story.
JMO
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Poor design and liability. .. RISK MANAGEMENT
I totally agree. It's an accident waiting to happen. But as fatboy has suggested, you cannot legislate stupidity.mark handler said:
The OP asked about what is required by code. As previously indicated code is a minimum. If someone wants to design above the code minimum, then go for it. In the end in this situation, the building owner would be smart to provide something, but whatever is provided would not be required by code.
samjohnsonus
Member
Can you please upload, provide some images.
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
Is a guard required?
Section 2307.1 glass used as guards
Section 2307.1 glass used as guards