Is the DOJ reviewer correct

[Examiner]

Last week I was back checking a facility regarding some DOJ comments. The DOJ reviewer instructed the client to change the first accessible parking stall in a row of accessible parking stalls to be the VAN accessible stall. The VAN Accessible stall was already in the row of accessible parking stalls but further down. This DOJ person told the client that the first stall had to be VAN accessible. I have never seen anything in ADA Standards that specifically states that the first stall has to be the VAN accessible stall. Putting a VAN sign at the first stall and not changing the stripe spacing results in a violation of the size required for the VAN Accessible stall's accessible aisle width. Has anyone see such language requiring that the first stall is always the VAN stall? I sure would like to know the chapter and verse of that ruling.

The DOJ person in my opinion is also hung up on exterior site route signage, also asking the client to put in signage at the main drive entrance to the project at the street as well as some other exterior signage that is exempt from ADA requirements under 2010 ADA Standards Section 216.1 Exceptions 1.

 

[Gregg Harris]

Last week I was back checking a facility regarding some DOJ comments. The DOJ reviewer instructed the client to change the first accessible parking stall in a row of accessible parking stalls to be the VAN accessible stall. The VAN Accessible stall was already in the row of accessible parking stalls but further down. This DOJ person told the client that the first stall had to be VAN accessible. I have never seen anything in ADA Standards that specifically states that the first stall has to be the VAN accessible stall. Putting a VAN sign at the first stall and not changing the stripe spacing results in a violation of the size required for the VAN Accessible stall's accessible aisle width. Has anyone see such language requiring that the first stall is always the VAN stall? I sure would like to know the chapter and verse of that ruling. The DOJ person in my opinion is also hung up on exterior site route signage, also asking the client to put in signage at the main drive entrance to the project at the street as well as some other exterior signage that is exempt from ADA requirements under 2010 ADA Standards Section 216.1 Exceptions 1.

Three Additional Features for Van-Accessible Parking Spaces

(plan drawing showing a van-accessible parking space with a 96 inch wide designated parking space, a 96 inch wide min. marked access aisle and the following notes)

Sign with "van accessible" and the international symbol of accessibility mounted high enough so the sign can be seen when a vehicle is parked in the space

96" min. width access aisle, level (max. slope 1:50 in all directions), located beside the van parking space

Min. 98-inch-high clearance at van parking space, access aisle, and on vehicular route to and from van space

I do not see any requirement that requires first space.

 

[gjmaia]

I am thinking the mis-interpretation centers around the concept of what is meant by "first space",.........to me, first space means that if two spaces are required, the first one (in the count) is van accessible,.....IOW, if you only need one space, it must be van accessible,......

 

[Examiner]

Agree one required space is VAN if only one accessible space is required. However, if two are required and the configuration is that the VAN is to share an aisle with another ADA standard stall then which one is first. Do you count or read left to right or right to left. Site layout of the parking may position the shared spaces so that you would not be able to say which stall is first. The guy is using his position beyond what the words say in the Guidelines. I have already talked to 3 ADA Techs at the Fed level and IBC ADA tech and they agree that the reviewer signage hang up I went over with them is incorrect on many items he cited as wrong. Man I wish I had a name to complain about his inaccurate review on many items and many more he missed. However, I am sure my bosses will not let me do that.

 

[Mark K]

If nobody pushes back this individual will continue to require things that he has no authority to require.

It has been suggested that similar problems have occurred with some building plan checkers.

 

[Examiner]

I have a reroofing project sitting at the State level for over 8 months now. The state agency has had 3 or 4 project managers on it since the final inspection. I keep telling my bosses that the overall head of the state agency is going to get a call from a state senator or representative initiated by the contractor or his subcontractors wanting their retainage. I can just hear the state agency blaming the Architect as they did before when in fact it was the state agency’s fault. There sure needs to be some accountability and reprimands for these types actions by people who think they are GOD.

 

[mark handler]

Need more info.....

 

[Builder Bob]

Not enough information... however, i also know that the accessible parking spaces have to be the shortest route possible to the accessible entrance - thus the use of first space may be his interpretation of the closest space tot eh accessible entrance.

 

[pwood]

van space is required to have the 8' space on the passenger side of the vehicle for the wheelchair unloading so go ahead call it #1.

 

[Builder Bob]

Cal. May have dictated this but the ADA and ANSI A117.1 do not.....

except when angled parking is used...

502.3.4 Location. Access aisles shall not overlap the vehicular way. Access aisles shall be permitted to be placed on either side of the parking space except for angled van parking spaces which shall have access aisles located on the passenger side of the parking spaces

 

[pwood]

Any one know if this is going to change in california in the new codes? Handler?

 

[mark handler]

Any one know if this is going to change in california in the new codes? Handler?

Is what going to change?

 

[JPohling]

There is no requirement specifying the van space location in the CBC when there are multiple accessible spaces required. With that logic the accessible spaces would always need to be on the right side of the building entry or the van space utilizing an 8 foot shared aisle would be the second space if they were located to the left of the building entry. absurd

 

[pwood]

Is what going to change?

the requirement that the unloading be on the passenger side of the van space. 1129B.3 :2

 

[steveray]

And if they back in....you are in violation?

the requirement that the unloading be on the passenger side of the van space. 1129B.3 :2

 

[mark handler]

Any one know if this is going to change in california in the new codes? Handler?

CBC2013

11B-502.3.4 Location. Access aisles shall not overlap the vehicular way. Access aisles shall be permitted to be placed on either side of the parking space except for van parking spaces which shall have access aisles located on the passenger side of the parking spaces.

 

[mark handler]

ADA Standards for Transportation Facilities

Chapter 5: General Site and Building Elements

502.3.4 Location. Access aisles shall not overlap the vehicular way. Access aisles shall be permitted to be placed on either side of the parking space except for angled van parking spaces which shall have access aisles located on the passenger side of the parking spaces.

Advisory 502.3.4 Location. Wheelchair lifts typically are installed on the passenger side of vans. Many drivers, especially those who operate vans, find it more difficult to back into parking spaces than to back out into comparatively unrestricted vehicular lanes. For this reason, where a van and car share an access aisle, consider locating the van space so that the access aisle is on the passenger side of the van space.

Chapter 5: General Site and Building Elements - United States Access Board

 

[pwood]

exactly! Thanks!

 

[steveray]

CT does not allow sharing the access aisle....