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island/peninsula AND room divider receptacles

P

peach

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We've hashed (and re-hashed) this topic before.. but I have fresh perspective, so bear with me.

We all know that there needs to be one receptacle to serve the countertop in this instance. The IRC says it can be 20" above the countertop... there is an exception that allows it to be beneath the countertop (less than 6" overhang)... perfect sense.. appliances will get pulled off if the receptacle/overhang don't meet code.

the question is this: since (in addition to the receptacle to serve the countertop), there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?

What say you?
 
As long as that other receptacle outlet per nec 210.52(A)(1)(3) is not installed within 12" of the countertop below an overhang of 6" or more per nec 210.52©(2) ,(3) and exception (5)
 
I don't read it that way.... 2 different receptacles... 2 different purposes..

I don't necessarily disagree, dcinspector.. but that's not how I could read it, if I was the electrician.
 
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condo-kitchen-inspection-kitchen-island-requires-gfci-protected-outlet.jpg
 
ok Mark... that island still needs a receptacle on the wall side (wall space > 2' in length) ... that's the discussion
 
peach said:
there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?
Click to expand...
No.

And not all Islands/peninsulas are made with walls, many are casework (cabnets) and not walllines.
 
A room divider is still a wall, Mark... a receptacle serving the living room (or whatever it is) on the other side of the kitchen is required... if the cabinet/wall is 2' in length.

Get into this same arguement will wall space behind doors... it's required.
 
Is a room divider a wall?

No not always

Not a black and white issue, more of shades of grey
 
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no... but a room divider is always a room divider... and it's always "wall space" according to the NEC 210.52(A) (2).. any space 2' or more...
 
Disagree. If that Casework was a room divider let's say between Kitchen and dining room or a living room then NEC 210.52(A)(2)(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar type counters or railings. The point that the op is trying to make is that if one installs a receptacle outlet within 12" of the top below that is greater than 6" top overhang....regardless, it is a violation of 210.52©(5)
 
thanks.. dc.. let's agree to disagree... I don't think it's a good idea to have the room divider receptacle up where it may be tempting to use a small appliance.. but I have hundreds of feet of extension cords to still plug in that 2nd slow cooker even if it's on the floor.
 
Who cares what they do after inspection, as long as the intiall install meets the code. And no I will not agree to disagree. I simply disagree with you.
 
ok...

Let's draft a code change that ALL receptacles serving the wall divider be floor mounted receptacles?
 
peach said:
good!!!! we don't need more designers out there interpreting the code.
Click to expand...
I am going to assume that was not a hurtful statement, simply some minor *&^% busting between friends.

I would like to know what the "room divider" is constructed of.......
 
peach said:
the question is this: since (in addition to the receptacle to serve the countertop), there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?

What say you?
Click to expand...
What rooms are divided here? 210.52(B)(2) may be a player here.
 
I think some distinctions should be made here.

I believe a room divider would be a half-wall (height) or see-through wall (permenant structure). This would require general use receptacles.

Kitchen Islands and Peninsulas are cabinets; not walls. I don't see them as room dividers. They are not part of the structure; even as non-bearing.

Additional receptacles installed (but, not required) on cabinets; must meet the requirements (including being GFCI) of locations on cabinets; including kitchen Islands and Peninsulas.

Uncle Bob
 
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