Making a door larger to accommodate a 6' slider

[TJacobs]

Good luck trying to verify the nailing of the plywood sheathing supposedly holding up this deep beam...sheeez

 

[GHRoberts]

Ya'll are arguing with brick wall,George, assumes all framing requires engineering; and that all inspectors and BOs have no business and no authority to enforce the codes, because they are not Injun Ears.

Misstating my position is not the way to prevail.

AHJs have authority to accept prescriptive code compliant issues and to accept engineering for non-prescriptive issues. Any and all non-prescriptive structural issues issues need to be dealt with by doing engineering. Comments like "That's just poor framing!" Don't really cut it in a discussion.

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Looking at the door at hand. If I had plans or was on site, I could do enough engineering to give an opinion. But few of us have plans or on site. Those who are on site lack a license to give an engineering opinion. So you fail it because it is not prescriptive. Not because it is unsafe.

 

[righter101]

Isn't there just some Simpson product with an ICC-ES report that you can attach, call it good????

 

[TJacobs]

If you think there are plans for this job, I have some swamp land to sell you.

 

[TimNY]

ah.. another thread disappears into absurdity..

I believe economics would dictate to just do it prescriptively. As TJ already noted, the engineer would either have to expose the siding to the extent necessary to develop a design, or he could just design it and then the BO would have to have it exposed to make sure it complies with the design.

Don't make me break out R103.4.

 

[JBI]

This is why we need a 'like' button... incognito is SPOT ON CORRECT. If it isn't prescriptive, it must be engineered.

 

[peach]

Leave it as it is.. that door will stop sliding sooner rather than later.. document it and move on. When you get a scathing call from the owner. .direct him/her to this link.

Problem solved.. hit the easy button

 

[fatboy]

I agree JBI, and I think that was George's point earlier, which sometimes it's hard to figure out. It is not OK for inpectors/building officials to say it is not safe, or dangerous, but we can say it is not compliant with the prescriptive codes. Semantics in my opinion.......fine, not compliant, provide engineering.

And I agree peach, the problem will become obvious to the owner soon.........

 

[peach]

Thanks fat..

never enforce what you're not there for. Giving a heads up to the owner/contractor is great.. report it to the AHJ.. great.. don't lose any sleep over it.. you do what you're hired to do.. period.

 

[Yankee]

Thanks fat..never enforce what you're not there for. Giving a heads up to the owner/contractor is great.. report it to the AHJ.. great.. don't lose any sleep over it.. you do what you're hired to do.. period.

I agree, a heads up to whomever has authority and also send a copy to your personal CYA file. Unless someone is about to die, in that case call in the flashing lights.

 

[peach]

Thanks Yank... can't save the world.. it'll make you nuts to try.

 

[RJJ]

Peach I agree you can't save the world and that is why I am becoming a little nuts. In PA they would need a permit for the alteration. In that light it has to comply. Even if you had been call to the site for something else we do have responsibility. Informing the owner is a start, but I would cite them if they didn't get a permit and install the header that is needed.

I red tag things all the time. We are supposed to have life safety as our first goal.

 

[Yankee]

Peach I agree you can't save the world and that is why I am becoming a little nuts. In PA they would need a permit for the alteration. In that light it has to comply. Even if you had been call to the site for something else we do have responsibility. Informing the owner is a start, but I would cite them if they didn't get a permit and install the header that is needed. I red tag things all the time. We are supposed to have life safety as our first goal.

Agreed assuming it is yours to cite, if not send it along to the BO/AHJ or whatever.

 

[RJJ]

It would be mind to cite!

 

[peach]

Cite.. not red tag or stop work.. that's the beauty of 3rd party.. report to the AHJ (since I'm not them)

 

[Jobsaver]

Peach I agree you can't save the world and that is why I am becoming a little nuts.

It would be mind to cite!

If one is a multi-tasking inspector covering a large area, one must learn to pick battles judiciously. It is important to pace yourself as would a long-distance runner. It is also important not to become so depleted as to have lost all reserve capacity . . . for those certain aspects of our jobs that demand accurate and urgent response.

 

[KZQuixote]

Misstating my position is not the way to prevail.AHJs have authority to accept prescriptive code compliant issues and to accept engineering for non-prescriptive issues. Any and all non-prescriptive structural issues issues need to be dealt with by doing engineering. Comments like "That's just poor framing!" Don't really cut it in a discussion.

---

Looking at the door at hand. If I had plans or was on site, I could do enough engineering to give an opinion. But few of us have plans or on site. Those who are on site lack a license to give an engineering opinion. So you fail it because it is not prescriptive. Not because it is unsafe.

George,

Huggnh, Huggnh! Huggnh.

That violation is so egregious, that offering an opinion that it was not compliant with any known standard, is reasonably safe. Unfortunately, that don't mean that you won't need council to defend you should the shiite really hit the fan.

Bill

 

[peach]

even if this wasn't a code violation (which it is).. the nature of the impending failure should be obvious to the contractor, owner, framer (butcher, baker, candlestick maker) that fixing it shouldn't even be a question.

 

[GHRoberts]

the nature of the impending failure should be obvious to the contractor, owner, framer (butcher, baker, candlestick maker) that fixing it shouldn't even be a question.

Geodesic domes and the Rainbow Bridge in China.

All nonprofessionals, most professionals, and many engineers cannot do an accurate assessment of designs they are not familiar with.

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The Rainbow Bridge, a bunch of short slender pieces of wood used to span long distances without any fasteners, was the subject of a PBS Nova program. The smart engineering students and the faculty at MIT got the engineering wrong.

 

[peach]

True, GH...

This is a pretty easy assessment.. they should have kept the smaller door... now they have an issue.