• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Maximum span distance for BCIs - some advice

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
98
Location
Alaska
Hey guys,

Project details
(I decided to go two story's because its not much extra money and my 25k foundation is really beefy, 8" monster stem wall, 24inch footing, for small 24'x64' duplex with monster 12" common wall in the middle.) Engineered trusses all roof load is to outside load bearing wall not interior.<<<--- this sentence is just to fill you in.

I am doing plan change just dont want to bug my inspector and honestly some people on here more knowledgeable then him, just have to weed through the smug people saying i am in over my head, looking for help not discouragement just building home for my family and I. My area does not require plan review, I will be making basic canned plan changes myself as I am proficient in AutoCAD, I will just be paying for extra inspection to make sure the second story is to code before I build the entire duplex. Already have the foundation for it per code, and engineered trusses already so might as well go two story.

Apologize in advance for the ignorance i am just a millennial building home for his family and want it to code so if I ever sell its already to code. Again we dont have plan review or permits where I am at, only private inspectors verifying you are to code.

Question here above was to fill you in------->>>>I have been looking at these BCI's (wood Ibeams). I read the tables and looks like I can do 23'6" with 12" BCI if I go 12" O.C. my outside to outside is 24'. I went with 2x6 so is that max distance from inside bearing wall to inside bearing wall? There is about 23' of no support if its inside to inside. I dont want to put an ugly beam on the 1st floor. I could do floor trusses but thats insane as all the floor will be holding up is some furniture, finish work, and some interior walls and fixtures, all roof weight is on the trusses to outside bearing wall. I think they can order 14" BCIs but seems overkill and makes the building look uglier if I make it a mile high on the hillside lot. My foundation is already a monster and its already way above grade on one side.

What would you guys do? just go with engineered floor trusses? I am not made of money no bank loan I am broke as crap going bigger and its eating me alive but I need some help, I got my parents throwing down for extra story and need help. Want to do BCIs if i can. Looks like I can but think I need to do 12" o.c. Only spot where it wouldnt be 12" o.c is where stairs will go i will jst brace it.

Thanks guys, maybe floor trusses is way to go, not trying to outsmart it but i am not made of money and its gray area with BCIs since i am spanning so far with no lower floor support. But I dont want ugly beam on 1st floor
 

Mark K

Platinum Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
2,133
The fact that an inspector has inspected the building is not proof that the building is to code. There are things that an inspector cannot identify as issues. This is only possible if somebody does a plan check.

You have indicated that you don't want to hear it but I will say that you are likely in over your head.
 

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
98
Location
Alaska
The fact that an inspector has inspected the building is not proof that the building is to code. There are things that an inspector cannot identify as issues. This is only possible if somebody does a plan check.

You have indicated that you don't want to hear it but I will say that you are likely in over your head.
This was edited because I am rude.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
98
Location
Alaska
This too was edited because I am being a jerk
 
Last edited by a moderator:

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
98
Location
Alaska
The fact that an inspector has inspected the building is not proof that the building is to code. There are things that an inspector cannot identify as issues. This is only possible if somebody does a plan check.

You have indicated that you don't want to hear it but I will say that you are likely in over your head.
Lets move on to the topic folks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

atvjoel

Registered User
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Messages
98
Location
Alaska
why oh why do I try to be such an.....
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tbz

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
980
Location
PA/NJ - Borderlands
Not sure why you go in to so much verbiage outside the question asking.

The simple answer for your question is Boise Cascade is the correct people to ask, and they have a simple free online calculator to help you input your data in and it provides you the correct answers to questions like that.

Pretty much anyone here would go by the engineers report and for prescriptive would check with tables and the calculator and if close might even make the call to BC to verify.

But a quick call to the people at bc.com will get you the answer to your question as to how to read their tables for spans.

Or use the generic table guide for reading Span Tables this is from the AWC
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
766
Location
Clayton NY
Your question was what would I do. I would try to make the BCIs work. A good part of that is I work alone and I can usually lift a tji (another name or lable from another manufacturer) and don't think I could lift the same length metal plate connected wood trusses, which I suspect cost more anyways, though I have no idea of total cost difference. Many factors like ducts, plumbing, labor, etc. to consider. I'd also go for much less deflection than code allows, which would be in the 3/4" range in a 24' span. I just don't like that much give and can cause problems below.

As far as code compliance:
What model of BCI - there seem to be five - and what size is not in the building code. I believe all you'll find in the code are live and dead loads and deflection limits, and with that a builder can work with the manufacturers' literature and representatives. I'm sorry but those detailed answers you seek are not here or in the code. Talk to the folks where you would buy these, ask for a regional representative, call their customer support line.

And what I would really do - and am planning to do - is put in a sawn lumber beam and use sawn lumber joists, and then it is a simple IRC question using the span tables. Since I consider my labor "no cost", it's also less expensive, especially using rough sawn from a few miles away. All compliant with the laws here.
 

e hilton

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
2,280
Location
Virginia
At maximun span the floor “joists” (whatever they are) will be strong enough to support all design loads. They won’t collapse. But they will deflect, probably more than you like. Think about at your ganny’s house, walk across the floor and the china cabinet rattles. Is that ok for your house? Upsize the beam one level.
 

ICE

Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
10,422
Location
Ca. concrete jungle
atvjoel,

I have gone through what you posted and deleted the rude, crass remarks....you even threatened violence....keep it up and I'll delete your entire thread.
 
Last edited:

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
766
Location
Clayton NY
atvjoel,

I have gone through what you post and deleted the rude, crass remarks....you even threatened violence....keep it up and I'll delete your entire thread.
Thank you. I am surprised the thread was not just deleted. You're very patient.
 

mtlogcabin

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
8,695
Location
Big Sky Country
The way some of you have responded to atvjoel in his first post I am surprised he came back. Would you have talked to an owner builder that way standing at your desk asking such a simple question as the one on this post that was easily answered by TBZ and given him further things to consider by bill1952 and e hilton.
Those of us on the code compliance end are also in the information and educational business and I believe that is a big part of this board is for every member to educate and share their knowledge and experience so others can learn not degrade them and tell them they are over their heads. There are polite and professional ways to respond that can help direct a person to an engineer if needed.

Ice I obviously did not see the posts that you amended and I thank you for doing that and bringing the post back on topic so hopefully he found some useful advice that will help him make a decision.
 

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
766
Location
Clayton NY
mt - I'm too saddened by the general intolerance of some posters. That said, I saw atvjoel's original posts before they were edited, and he was by far the worst offender. I do appreciate you pointing out the issue.
 

steveray

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
9,238
Location
West of the river CT
The span is generally measured from the inside face of the support....Sorry I missed al the rudeness...Shirley I could have upped the ante....
 

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
766
Location
Clayton NY
The jurisdiction creates some of the problems (not all) for avtjoel. No building department but it has to "meet code" as determined by an inspector during and after construction.
 

tbz

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
980
Location
PA/NJ - Borderlands
The jurisdiction creates some of the problems (not all) for avtjoel. No building department but it has to "meet code" as determined by an inspector during and after construction.
Bill, I don't believe there is a jurisdiction in ATVJoes case for the area he is in, I believe its an agreement to build to code and get a certification that it was done that way in order to be able to resell the property with that certification and or get bank financing issue, I could be wrong.

Thus I don't think he has to build to code, its that he has elected to build to code to get the certification inspections that what he built complies per an independent agency saying it does.

Thus, the independent inspection agent is the sole authority I am assuming, so when you disagree with the independent inspector on an interpretation of the code, who do you have to mediate the issue. I am guessing no one up the food chain like in a normal jurisdiction, though I could be wrong.

The way I read his posts was he has been living and building in the method for years and the inspectors have gotten more knowledge and are enforcing code compliance requirements that had not been being done in the past. They are getting up with the times...

Thus, he was looking for support from this community that he was correct in his view, splitting hairs in terminology, to be able to point the independent inspector to a place were he could say he is correct and the inspector is wrong, basically here Mr. Inspector see.

When that fell a part for him the posts became quite argumentative on opinions, and well, the rest is history that might make for a horror movie some day.

The fact that he came back and acknowledge he was incorrect and asked another question not within his knowledge, I personally took as trying to mend a fence that he had pulled a mile down of, everyone takes it their own way.

Thus my post in #7, as to the others, salt might be tasty on a steak or your eggs in the morning, but not on an open wound.

Just how I am reading it all from here....
 

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
766
Location
Clayton NY
Well I generally agree with you except that I'd say he is in a jurisdiction - Alaska - which does not adopt or enforce a model code, this the problem.

I did try to answer his question constructively and with respect, and I think in agreement with you, just 2 minutes later. If it hadn't been for that third cup of coffee.....:)
 

bill1952

Sawhorse
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
766
Location
Clayton NY
PS Some of the issue is varying interpretations, as the doors in addition to the required thread illustrates. When a model code basically leaves blanks for the jurisdiction to fill in, like atvjoel's truss engineering, and then they don't, it's especially frustrating.
 
Top