Mezzanine stairs - rated?

[Nicole Brooks]

APPLICABLE CODES: IEBC 2021 and NFPA 101

I have an existing enclosed mezzanine, around 5000 sf. The mezzanine has two enclosed exit stairs, both of which do not have rated doors. If the walls are rated, there is no indication. I have now had a second comment from plans review. First they told me both exit enclosure (both of which discharge directly outside) needed to be rated. I responded back with "these are mezzanine exit access stairs. Mezzanines are considered part of the floor below, stairs within a story are not required to be rated". My second comment from them was that one stair needed to be rated. They cite no code source or give any indication as to why they need to be rated. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[steveray]

Sounds like they are making stuff up as they are existing....What is the scope of work?

 

[Nicole Brooks]

Sounds like they are making stuff up as they are existing....What is the scope of work?

I did find a section in NFPA 101 that requires 1 of the stairs to be rated 8.6.10.3.2. The PM just told me not to fight it, he wants to get started on the work.

 

[Penguin87]

APPLICABLE CODES: IEBC 2021 and NFPA 101

I have an existing enclosed mezzanine, around 5000 sf. The mezzanine has two enclosed exit stairs, both of which do not have rated doors. If the walls are rated, there is no indication. I have now had a second comment from plans review. First they told me both exit enclosure (both of which discharge directly outside) needed to be rated. I responded back with "these are mezzanine exit access stairs. Mezzanines are considered part of the floor below, stairs within a story are not required to be rated". My second comment from them was that one stair needed to be rated. They cite no code source or give any indication as to why they need to be rated. Is there something I'm missing?

I've ran into that on previous projects as well. We were able to get out of providing a fire rated egress stair through an appeal. Our building was sprinklered, occupancy was B.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

APPLICABLE CODES: IEBC 2021 and NFPA 101

I have an existing enclosed mezzanine, around 5000 sf. The mezzanine has two enclosed exit stairs, both of which do not have rated doors. If the walls are rated, there is no indication. I have now had a second comment from plans review. First they told me both exit enclosure (both of which discharge directly outside) needed to be rated. I responded back with "these are mezzanine exit access stairs. Mezzanines are considered part of the floor below, stairs within a story are not required to be rated". My second comment from them was that one stair needed to be rated. They cite no code source or give any indication as to why they need to be rated. Is there something I'm missing?

I saw this post/thread when it was first posted and didn't respond. However, I just noticed something that I overlooked previously.

First they told me both exit enclosure (both of which discharge directly outside) needed to be rated.

A mezzanine has to be within a room or space. If this "mezzanine" is enclosed and both means of egress discharge directly to the outdoors, IMHO it's not a mezzanine at all -- it's a story.

 

[bill1952]

A mezzanine has to be within a room or space. If this "mezzanine" is enclosed and both means of egress discharge directly to the outdoors, IMHO it's not a mezzanine at all -- it's a story.

I agree. The reason for the mezzanine exceptions are because it is open to the room it's in and occupants are nearly aware of any hazard as if the space was all one level. Enclose it and it's no longer a mezzanine.

 

[steveray]

I agree. The reason for the mezzanine exceptions are because it is open to the room it's in and occupants are nearly aware of any hazard as if the space was all one level. Enclose it and it's no longer a mezzanine.

Au contraire....

505.2.3​

A mezzanine shall be open and unobstructed to the room in which such mezzanine is located except for walls not more than 42 inches (1067 mm) in height, columns and posts.

Exceptions:

1. 1.Mezzanines or portions thereof are not required to be open to the room in which the mezzanines are located, provided that the occupant load of the aggregate area of the enclosed space is not greater than 10.
2. 2.A mezzanine having two or more exits or access to exits is not required to be open to the room in which the mezzanine is located.
3. 3.Mezzanines or portions thereof are not required to be open to the room in which the mezzanines are located, provided that the aggregate floor area of the enclosed space is not greater than 10 percent of the mezzanine area.
4. 4.In industrial facilities, mezzanines used for control equipment are permitted to be glazed on all sides.
5. 5.In occupancies other than Groups H and I, which are no more than two stories above grade plane and equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, a mezzanine having two or more exits or access to exits shall not be required to be open to the room in which the mezzanine is located.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

^^^ All correct. Mezzanines do not have to be open -- they may (under the prescribed conditions) be enclosed.

Note, however, that all but one of the exceptions refers to the mezzanine not needing to be open "to the room in which the mezzanine is located." I remain of the opinion that a mezzanine which has two enclosed stairs, neither of which connects the mezzanine to an interior room or space, cannot be claimed to be located "in" a room or space, and thus is not a mezzanine.

 

[steveray]

^^^ All correct. Mezzanines do not have to be open -- they may (under the prescribed conditions) be enclosed.

Note, however, that all but one of the exceptions refers to the mezzanine not needing to be open "to the room in which the mezzanine is located." I remain of the opinion that a mezzanine which has two enclosed stairs, neither of which connects the mezzanine to an interior room or space, cannot be claimed to be located "in" a room or space, and thus is not a mezzanine.

I sort of agree...It doesn't likely serve the space if there is no way to get there without going outside, but....There is a lot more to this one I am sure....

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

5,000 s.f. seems awfully large for a mezzanine. It would help if Ms. Brooks would post plans, and indicate the type of construction and whether or not the building is sprinklered.

 

[bill1952]

Au contraire....

505.2.3​

A mezzanine shall be open and unobstructed to the room in which such mezzanine is located except for walls not more than 42 inches (1067 mm) in height, columns and posts.

Exceptions:

1. 1.Mezzanines or portions thereof are not required to be open to the room in which the mezzanines are located, provided that the occupant load of the aggregate area of the enclosed space is not greater than 10.
2. 2.A mezzanine having two or more exits or access to exits is not required to be open to the room in which the mezzanine is located.
3. 3.Mezzanines or portions thereof are not required to be open to the room in which the mezzanines are located, provided that the aggregate floor area of the enclosed space is not greater than 10 percent of the mezzanine area.
4. 4.In industrial facilities, mezzanines used for control equipment are permitted to be glazed on all sides.
5. 5.In occupancies other than Groups H and I, which are no more than two stories above grade plane and equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1, a mezzanine having two or more exits or access to exits shall not be required to be open to the room in which the mezzanine is located.

I should have said the special allowances for a mezzanine. I did not intend to refer to the specific exceptions for special conditions which I believe have been added over the years.