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Mixing sprinkler types in room

I

Inspector 102

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
357
Location
N/E Indiana
Admittedly, I do not know much of NFPA 13 for design issues. I had a contractor ask if 2 different types of sprinkler heads can be mixed in the same room. I believe the application was a standard sidewall sprinkler and a ESFR sidewall sprinkler serving the same room. The coverage of each head has been addressed, only the fact that they are different heads. I am not sure where to even begin to look to answer this question and would appreciate any direction someone could offer. It does not appear to be an issue as long as replacement heads were equal and spare heads provided. Thank you.
 
Need to know what the heads being addressed are first

I do no think there is a esfr head

maybe you have a standard sidewall and an extended reach, which should be ok, as long as if they need to be replaced the correct head is put in.

Plus if you have extended coverage is there enough pressure to push it?

Who does your sprinkelr plan review?
 
Is it quick response that I am thinking where all of the heads need to be the same? I know there is something like that and I do not have NFPA 13 right now....
 
All need to be either quick response or standard response unless high temperature head is required that is not available in quick response see NFPA 13-2007 8.3.3

Various types of sidewall pendant and uprights can be in the same compartment.
 
You are correct. The issue was standard response and quick response in the same room. Apparently a third party company came in a said it was improper to have the 2 mixed in the same room. I am not aware of an issue and thought they were just trying to drum up business. Will look at code section cited and see if this is applicable. Thanks for the responses.

This is what the owner sent me.

"They are saying we cannot have a standard response and a quick response in the same room"
 
Inspector 102 said:
You are correct. The issue was standard response and quick response in the same room. Apparently a third party company came in a said it was improper to have the 2 mixed in the same room. I am not aware of an issue and thought they were just trying to drum up business. Will look at code section cited and see if this is applicable. Thanks for the responses. This is what the owner sent me.

"They are saying we cannot have a standard response and a quick response in the same room"
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Ok now that we know the cow is brown,, is this a new system or remodling an existing system,

Because it does make a difference.

also what edition of 13 are you under???
 
This is in an existing building that was built under the 1990 NFPA 13 edition if I remember correctly. The room is question is used for storage of mattresses in a hotel. Currently my area is under the 2010 edition for new installations. There is no remodeling going on, just an annual review of the existing system that received those comments. I hate to be in the middle of a dispute, but need to verse myself so I can get educated on the issue. No better place to ask then the experts on this forum. Have I buttered everyone up enough? seriously, appreciate the help.
 
My take is maybe stanard response were installed to begin with and quick reponse have replaced some of them. Now why they were replaced is a good question, unless there was a fire, recall, or leak or similar.

But anyway to your question::

from 2010

8.3.3 Thermal Sensitivity.

8.3.3.1*

Sprinklers in light hazard occupancies shall be one of the following:

(1)

Quick-response type as defined in 3.6.4.7

(2)

Residential sprinklers in accordance with the requirements of 8.4.5

(3)

Standard-response sprinklers used for modifications or additions to existing light hazard systems equipped with standard-response sprinklers

(4)

Standard-response sprinklers used where individual standard-response sprinklers are replaced in existing light hazard systems

A.8.3.3.1

A.8.3.3.1 When renovations occur in an existing building and no changes are made in the existing sprinkler system, this section is not intended to require the replacement of existing standard sprinklers with quick-response sprinklers.

and from 2010 commentary:::

The use of quick-response sprinklers, which are specified in 8.3.3.1(1), has been an option within NFPA 13 since the 1980 edition. Although quick-response sprinklers tend to enhance property protection and life safety, no requirements or incentives for their use were provided until the 1996 edition. The requirement that quick-response sprinklers be used in all light hazard occupancies, with appropriate exceptions to address existing systems, raises the baseline level of system performance.

"""""""""""""""Existing systems are not required to be upgraded when renovations occur.""""""""""""""

Quick-response sprinklers are considered necessary because of their life safety benefits. The evidence clearly indicates that using quick-response sprinklers rather than standard-response sprinklers reduces the fire damage, all other factors being equal. Most of the sprinkler systems installed in light hazard occupancies, such as hospitals, hotels, and apartments, are installed for life safety purposes. However, even in those occupancies where life safety is not the primary reason for sprinkler system installation, such as in offices and restaurants, quick-response sprinklers are still considered important, because they limit fire damage and the potential for injury or death of occupants and fire fighters. Given the current level of knowledge concerning the performance of quick-response sprinklers, the use of standard-response technology instead of quick-response technology in light hazard occupancies is considered inappropriate.

Like quick-response sprinklers, residential sprinklers have fast-response operating elements and can be used within some light hazard occupancies in accordance with 8.4.5. However, residential sprinklers and quick-response sprinklers have different spray patterns. Therefore, residential sprinklers should be used only as outlined in 8.4.5, and quick-response spray sprinklers should be used in other portions of the light hazard occupancies.

In some occupancies that are traditionally considered light hazard, ordinary hazard designs are sometimes used due to an uncertainty in the fire loading. Office buildings are an example of this type of occupancy. In these cases, quick-response sprinklers should be used, even though a higher sprinkler density is provided by using an ordinary hazard design.

as long as they are the same temp heads and K factor should be ok, unless there is something else going on????????
 
cda said:
Ok now that we know the cow is brown,, is this a new system or remodling an existing system,Because it does make a difference.

also what edition of 13 are you under???
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Does not matter new or existing same rules apply because one of the heads was new when the mixed heads came into being. The all the same response characteristic requirement was incorporated into the 2002 edition of NFPA 13 but was in the listing requirements and manufacturer's instructions for most quick response sprinklers since they were introduced.
 
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Review NFPA 13 2010 ED, Chapter 13 Miscellaneous Storage, storage of mattresses is considered a group a plastic, look at Table 13.2.1 Discharge Criteria for Miscellaneous Storage 12 ft (3.7 m) or Less in Height, look for Exposed plastic, 2nd page, depending on the storage height the minimum design for 5' storage is OH 2 or .20/1500 if it is higher than 5' it can get you to EX Haz GP 2 .40/2500. Look at the size of the room can not be larger than 1'000 sq. ft. as per NFPA 13. Let's hope they are not higher than 5' EX 2 = 750 GPM, plus 500 GPM for the FD, that is a lot of water!!

Oh yea QR heads can not be used here. May want them to get a fire protection professional involved.
 
Insurance Engineer said:
Review NFPA 13 2010 ED, Chapter 13 Miscellaneous Storage, storage of mattresses is considered a group a plastic, look at Table 13.2.1 Discharge Criteria for Miscellaneous Storage 12 ft (3.7 m) or Less in Height, look for Exposed plastic, 2nd page, depending on the storage height the minimum design for 5' storage is OH 2 or .20/1500 if it is higher than 5' it can get you to EX Haz GP 2 .40/2500. Look at the size of the room can not be larger than 1'000 sq. ft. as per NFPA 13. Let's hope they are not higher than 5' EX 2 = 750 GPM, plus 500 GPM for the FD, that is a lot of water!!Oh yea QR heads can not be used here. May want them to get a fire protection professional involved.
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Understand where you are coming from.

What about the original question of mixing heads, in let's say normal setting, existing building?
 
You can not mix QR and standard response in the same compartment/ area. The QR will activate 1st and take water away from standard response head.

8.3.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 8.3.3.3.

8.3.3.3 Where there are no listed quick-response sprinklers in the temperature range required, standard-response sprin- klers shall be permitted to be used.

8.3.3.4 When existing light hazard systems are converted to use quick-response or residential sprinklers, all sprinklers in a compartmented space shall be changed.

See below from NFPA 13, 2010 when you have ESFR and Std sprinklers.

8.4.6.4 Draft Curtains.

8.4.6.4.1 Where ESFR sprinkler systems are installed adjacent to sprinkler systems with standard-response sprinklers, a draft curtain of noncombustible construction and at least 2 ft (0.6 m) in depth shall be required to separate the two areas.

8.4.6.4.2 A clear aisle of at least 4 ft (1.2 m) centered below the draft curtain shall be maintained for separation.
 
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Insurance Engineer said:
You can not mix QR and standard response in the same compartment/ area. The QR will activate 1st and take water away from standard response head. 8.3.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 8.3.3.3.

8.3.3.3 Where there are no listed quick-response sprinklers in the temperature range required, standard-response sprin- klers shall be permitted to be used.

8.3.3.4 When existing light hazard systems are converted to use quick-response or residential sprinklers, all sprinklers in a compartmented space shall be changed.

See below from NFPA 13, 2010 when you have ESFR and Std sprinklers.

8.4.6.4 Draft Curtains.

8.4.6.4.1 Where ESFR sprinkler systems are installed adjacent to sprinkler systems with standard-response sprinklers, a draft curtain of noncombustible construction and at least 2 ft (0.6 m) in depth shall be required to separate the two areas.

8.4.6.4.2 A clear aisle of at least 4 ft (1.2 m) centered below the draft curtain shall be maintained for separation.
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Thanks I need to keep reading throughout that section.

But I still think if you have an existing system with standard heads installed originally, you can mix int that situation.
 
CDA

Sorry I do not agree with you. Based on the sections of NFPA noted above, you can not mix the two, existing, new or any other situation. Why?? because the QR will activate first not good if the fire is not under or near the QR sprinkler.
 
Insurance Engineer said:
CDASorry I do not agree with you. Based on the sections of NFPA noted above, you can not mix the two, existing, new or any other situation. Why?? because the QR will activate first not good if the fire is not under or near the QR sprinkler.
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Hmmmmmm,

Ok I agree cannot mix,

not sure where I got that from.
 
Inspector 102 said:
You are correct. The issue was standard response and quick response in the same room. Apparently a third party company came in a said it was improper to have the 2 mixed in the same room. I am not aware of an issue and thought they were just trying to drum up business. Will look at code section cited and see if this is applicable. Thanks for the responses. This is what the owner sent me.

"They are saying we cannot have a standard response and a quick response in the same room"
Click to expand...
Appears ,,, Heads cannot be mixed
 
A little late to the party...........Please also remember that you can't mix other heads in or right next special situation applications or ESFR/Storage/Manufacturing without draft curtains or other suitable barrier.
 
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