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Mold and lumber left onsite too long

jar546

jar546

CBO
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
12,748
Location
Not where I really want to be
All LVL's were completely loaded with this substance.

What is your thought on this?

IMG_9857.JPG
 
I'd be interested to hear of some way to address it. I posted a similar question on the "old board" regarding this. Contractor (Mr. Big Time) purchased a couple of truckloads of dimensional lumber and some I-joists, which, well, happened to be nearly a 5 year supply for him (really saved himself a bunch of money tying up money for 5 years like that!). Anyway, now three years into it, the studs have been in wraps, but sitting out in a vacant lot - pull the wraps off and it looks like Jeff's picture above, except kind of a 'mold medley' - some white, some black....

The lumber is grade stamped (all that I could find in the code to address it - nothing on "handling / storage"), and seemed to have adequate resistance to nail withdraw, etc.

All of the builders in town, of course, made it a point to phone in their complaints to me: "You're not going to let him get by with that, are you??!!!"
 
Inform the Owner of the concern and note that there is no basis in the code for you to reject it.

If the wood is wet you could require some tests of moisture content and reject the wood if moisture content is out of standard.

In California the new CalGreen code requires moisture content be checked before it is enclosed. Moisture content cannot exceed 19%.

Capacity of the nails is reduced if they are installed in wet wood even if the wood subsequently has a moisture content of 19% or less. This is well defined in the NDS code. If the moisture content exceeded 19% at time of installation your argument is that the the connections do not have the capacity required by the code unless they can have an engineer prove otherwise.
 
Not a code issue, note it and move on. I'm not a mold expert, don't know if it would kill me, or if I could eat it. If someone is concerned with it, tell them to get an Indusrial Hygienist to evaluate it.
 
Had this issue come up 2 years ago. White and black mold. We required the contractor to hire a mold remedeation company and certify it. Closest company was out of Denver.

Post Script: Is there a correlation between mold, the color green and Colorado? Sorry fatboy, just could't resist!
 
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mark handler said:
Interesting readMold and Wood Products

http://www2.wwpa.org/SERVICES/ProductSupport/MoldandLumber/tabid/419/Default.aspx
Click to expand...
Thanks Mark. Good info.

"Can I clean the mold from the wood?

The decision to clean mold from lumber depends on the amount of mold present and how likely it is to be disturbed. In nearly all cases, mold cleaning should be undertaken only after any moisture problems are resolved.

For any mold clean up that may generate large amounts of dust, basic personal protection equipment such as rubber gloves, eye protection and a high-quality pollen or dust mask should be worn. Clean-up of small spots or areas of mold generally does not require any special protective equipment.

There are a number of products on the market, from commercial mildewcides to common bleach, which are promoted for removing mold from wood. However, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suggests using mild detergent and water for most mold clean up. For cleaning wood surfaces, the EPA recommends wet vacuuming the area, wiping or scrubbing the mold with detergent and water and, after drying, vacuuming with a high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) vacuum (EPA, 2001).

The molds seen on lumber are largely a collection of fungal spores on the surface of the wood. As such, wet wiping or scrubbing the lumber will remove the mold.

Simply wiping the wood, however, can release those spores into the surrounding air. A better approach is to gently spray or wet down the mold prior to removal. Once the mold has been wetted, it can be removed by wet-wiping the surfaces with a water and detergent solution, scrubbing if necessary. "
 
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* * * *

Cite Section R101.3 & Section R104.9 from the `06 IRC.

R101.3 - PURPOSE: "The purpose of this code is to provide minimum requirements to safeguard

the public safety, health and general welfare through affordability, structural

strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, light and ventilation,

energy conservation and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards

attributed to the built environment."

R104.9 - Approved materials and equipment."Materials, equipment and devices approved

by the building official shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval."

Did the BO approve of these lvl's to be installed?....If not, then it's "Go time baby!":D

* * * *
 
I designed an industrial building about 10 years ago, a metal building, but the owner wanted to use wood I joists for the mezzanine structure. He had found a good deal on these joists a couple years prior. I'll never forget the contractor's email to me after they were all installed. The email basically said that I had inspected each and every joist for mold and had approved them for installation. The actual fact was that I hadn't seen a single one at that point in time and I issued a response that at no point in time would I (as the architect) be inspecting and approving the joists. This was an owner decision to use these joists and the owner takes full responsibility for the joists. There was an attempt to clean them and I really don't know how well that turned out. I didn't like being the escape goat by the contractor and I documented the fact of the mold in the owner supplied joists in all my inspection reports when they were still exposed and noted that it was an owner decision and that the architect (me) would not be approving or rejecting their usage.
 
LVL's are addressed in the code so the building official's approval is not needed to use them. The building official can reject products that were not designed according to the code or that do not comply with the code requirements.

While the building department may nominaly approve products that are addressed in the code he does not have the right to withold his approval unless he can show that the product is used in some way that violates the code.

Agree that the purpose of the code is to safeguard the public health but that does not give the building official the authority to impose requirements to carry out that purpose. Depending on state laws your jurisdiction might be in a position to adopt regulations to address this but untill they do you will have to look elsewhere.
 
* * * *

Mark K.,

Are you saying that the manufactured condition of the product [ in this

case, ..." lvl's " ], have a higher approval than the [ their ] install condition,

regardless of the BO's approval?

If so, can you please provide code sections.....I want to learn more more

about this caveat.

* * * *
 
What I am saying is that LVL's are no different from sawn lumber. If the product complies with appropriate standards and was designed and constructed in accordance with the code the building official cannot withold his approval. If the product was installed in accordance with the code but some time prior to issuance of the CO it becomes out of compliance it can be rejected.

If the use of the product/material is in conformance with the code and the building official witholds his approval the owner can obtain a writ of mandamus from a judge requiring the building official to do his job and approve the use. This is discussed on page 36 of "Legal Aspects of Code Administration" published by ICC.
 
% % % %

The

" ...but some time prior to issuance of the CO it becomes out of compliance it can be rejected"
Click to expand...
part is where the BO could require removal of the mold [ in the OP case. ]Thanks for the clarification!



% % % %
 
It's an engineered product. Have the manufacturer send a rep to the josite and inspect them. If they don't see a problem, and will document that, then the installation complies. The mold is a symptom, not a problem. It is a symptom of moisture. If it is a suface condition, it can be cleaned. The recurrance of moisture can always cause a recurrance of the mold, so cure the problem... that is, stop the moisture infiltration.

PS - Looks like they missed a few nail holes on the hangers... :o
 
I believe North Star is correct in "fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment.", and under R103, the BO has the authority to render interrpretations and adopt polices and proceedures......". In reality, some mold is harmless and some is harzardous to your health. I think he is well within his rights (and responsibilities) to require hygenist testing to ensure that it is not harmful.
 
* * * *

In my AHJ, I have to look for justification / code references on every

discrepancy I find, so that when a contractor calls in to complain, I can

show [ in black & white ] my justification to the BO.



FWIW, I had a mold case come up on a framing inspection.....I noted

the discrepancy on my inspection report......I couldn't even get back to

the office before the "house constructor" was already on the

telephone screaming bloody murder, ...and how dare I notate such

minor insignificancies, ...blah, blah, blah, ...I was costing him money

& time, ...he only builds quality houses, ...more blah, blah, blah.

The BO asked them to get some bleach and remove the noted

locations, ...all the while with the "house constructor" fuming and

getting redder by the minute.



I am not saying that all "house constructors" and contractors

are this way!....No disrespect intended to the quality builders &

contractors out there doing a good job.

* * * *
 
Probably penicillin. Chlorine gas, heavy metals, sapstain poisons... better living through modern chemistry.
 
I have no training on identifying mold and so therefore will not speculate on what is mold and what is not mold.
 
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