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Mold and lumber left onsite too long

mark handler said:
Back in the seventies I also did ink on mylar.....
Click to expand...
Well then young feller, what ya think of all this new-fangled stuff asked the old guy???

Mold is not a code issue IMHO until it gets listed as such.
 
Mold is seldom an issue. Black mold (not the white mold shown) may be an issue.

But inspectors and homeowners get scared by everything that is not just the way they want it.
 
Mold can only grow with 20% or greater moisture. Dry it out, before covering, and keep it dry. There will be no issue
 
Has anyone considered that the mold may be protected under the "Endangered Species Act"??

This could ballon in to a much larger issue if they harm a protected species......
 
I agree that mold is not a building code issue and thus the BO cannot require its removal. The building official can enforce requirements related to moisture content in the wood and can require action where there are clear signs of structural decay that impacts the structural safety.

A common problem is when building officials and inspectors believe that they can make up rules to do what they think is right. As previously stated in this forum when the building official or inspector does this he can find himself personally liable.
 
2010 CALIFORNIA GREEN BUILDING STANDARDS CODE

4.505.3 Moisture content of building materials. Building materials with visible signs of water damage shall not be installed.Wall and floor framing shall not be enclosed when the framing members exceed 19 percent moisture content.

I know you'all are going to "Thank me" for this reference
 
USG and other gypsum wallboard manufacturers have had the same requirements for 19% MC for quite a while.

USG Handbook 2000

Wood Framing

4. All framing lumber should have a moisture content not in excess of

19% at time of gypsum board application.
 
The AF&PA/NDS specifies lower member capacities and fastener values in wet lumber. If the nails were installed when the lumber had a high moisture content you still pay the penalty for fasteners even after it dries. If the IBC applies you could use this to cause them to address the high moisture content in the wood. It is still possible that the engineer could prove that the strength was adequate but once the engineer looks at it he will likely take the issue seriously.

While the IRC does reference AF&PA/NDS I am having a harder time making the link because you are not required to design connections for strength. It is not clear if there are any moisture content limitations for the lumber.
 
"...having a harder time making the link because you are not required to design connections for strength." Then what are they designed for?

Did I mention that bleach doesn't actually kill mold? Mold is a fungus, not a bacteria.
 
JBI said:
Did I mention that bleach doesn't actually kill mold? Mold is a fungus, not a bacteria.
Click to expand...
Bleach Does Kill Mold – Within Limits

News Release Distributed 11/30/05

Stories are hitting the media saying bleach doesn’t work in mold cleanup and prevention. An LSU AgCenter expert says there are reasons for some of the confusion but that bleach is effective at killing mold.

"What people are hearing is both true and false," said Dr. Claudette Reichel, a housing specialist with the LSU AgCenter.

Bleach is convenient, inexpensive and appropriate as a sanitizer for hard, non-porous, non-metallic and color-fast items after they have been cleaned, but it has some limitations when cleaning flooded buildings, Reichel stressed.

"Bleach can kill mold," Reichel said. "But if the surface is dirty, the bleach can get ‘spent’ oxidizing the organics and not get a chance to penetrate the mold structure enough to kill it."

That’s one reason it’s important to clean first and then disinfect, Reichel said. It’s also important to use a solution that’s strong enough – generally 1/2 to 1 cup of bleach per gallon of water – and to leave it on long enough to work – about 30 minutes.

Residual mold spores should then be removed, since killing them does not eliminate their potential health effects or toxicity – if they produced toxins, Reichel advised.

The housing specialist also explained that bleach has no residual effect. In essence, it’s gone in minutes and will not remain to inhibit the growth of new mold colonies on damp materials.

"That’s why it’s so important to speed dry after disinfecting, if possible," Reichel said.

To speed dry wet materials, Reichel suggested closing windows and running air conditioning or heat, running fans and using a dehumidifier.

"If that’s not possible because you don’t have power, some sort of treatment that inhibits mold or makes the material inhospitable can help," she said. Borate treatments, with the added benefits of termite resistance, may help, along with other products that are on the market, she said.

"In addition, bleach should not be used on metals because it is corrosive," Reichel said. "It’s important not to allow bleach to contact wiring, and it should not be used in an air-conditioning or heating system."

Reichel said a fact sheet distributed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency says treatment with commercial mold removers eliminates visible evidence of mold growth on exposed surfaces and is recommended for restoring flood-damaged homes.

In addition, tests have found very little or no evidence of mold growth in the unexposed or hidden portions of the walls and that treating the unexposed portions of the walls for mold control does not appear warranted in most cases.

FEMA recommends spraying vertical surfaces using a pump-up garden sprayer with a commercial mildew remover.

For more information, including the new fact sheet "Mold Removal Guidelines for Your Flooded Home," visit the LSU AgCenter’s Web site at www.lsuagcenter.com.

Last Updated: 12/8/2005 2:01:07 PM
 
Mark(s),

yes, I've looked before there is no applicable moisture content spec in the IRC, I was just checking to see if you knew of something I had missed. I am aware of the NDS table re: connector values vs mc at assembly/in service. You can frame with dead green material if you so choose, and I have, logs and heavy timber construction. You can also use S-GRN dimensional framing without prohibition.

Notice that bleach is corrosive to metals, it is also a pulping agent on wood, and being spent doing that, does not effectively kill mold on wood. I do use borates frequently although not on conventional framing or lvl's (it wouldn't penetrate an lvl anyway). I had one homeowner who supplied materials that had been stored poorly for about a year, it was getting pretty funky. He hired an alien to TSP the whole place, unfortunately alot of my tools were there when he did it. Massive rust, it even stripped the light galvy coating off of some stuff. I have no idea what it did to the hangers and connections long term.
 
One of my air quality consultants claims that with the new California low VOC OSB that mold is embedded in the OSB, our remediators usually sand it out on most wood, but it's now impossible to sand it our in new particle and flakeboard products.

Here are is a slideshow of pictures I took of my remediators sanding out mold in plywood, the mold was in a 15 unit apartment building that window scammers installed windows set in caulking that leaked, then mold started growing in the styrofoam that they used to insulate around the windows. If that building had been sheathed in OSB all of the stucco would have had to have been torn off along with the OSB to get rid of the mold.
 
Sanding won't get rid of it, all it will do is remove surface mold.

In order to thrive, mold requires five things: 1) moisture or high humidity, 2) organic food source, 3) oxygen, 4) 40 to 100 degrees Fahrenheit and 5) darkness. Many of today's construction products such as OSB (oriented strand board), plywood, and drywall provide nutrients necessary to support mold growth.

Today's tightly constructed building envelopes make it difficult for moisture to escape or evaporate. It's a fact that most modern buildings simply don't breathe very well, which is good for energy savings, but prime breeding ground for mold fungi.

It is not possible to get rid of all mold and mold spores. According to the EPA, control of moisture is the best way to control mold. Moisture control means fixing leaky roofs, windows and faucets as well as eliminating the build-up of humidity inside the home or building through proper ventilation.
 
Mold is embedded in the environment, we go waay back through time together. That fancy wine on your shelf that was aged in a french oak cask. The oak is the same as ours, the difference... they leave theirs in ground contact till it picks up that certain something. We need to do better marketing of our fungi :) Would you reject lumber with bluestain? Have you seen the fruiting bodies of bluestain? This is an education problem. Denying it moisture or poisoning the food are the simplest ways to keep it from growing.
 
But it's also a fact that all WRBs are "permeable", they are rated in water holdout at 20 minutes to a maximum or Fortifiber's Two Ply Super JumboTex of 155 minutes, once the cladding (particularly a reservoir cladding like stucco) becomes saturated for period in excess of the water holdout period the WRB becomes "overwhelmed" in the words of the WRB industry, and there is water in walls, this is exasperated by stuffing the wall with insulation to hold the water. Here is a picture of the inside of a normal 50 year-old stucco tract house with 20 minute line wire, and this is the garage with no sheetrock on the wall, imagine if that "breathing wall" had OSB on it and insulation in it? Now imagine what happens when someone decides to save energy and an insulation scammer drills holes through the stucco and pumps shredded newspaper (they euphemistically call it "cellulose") into that wall? During the last energy credits program in the 80s I've seen the shredded newspapers so saturated that they were packed down to 12" above the sole plate and fireblocks, with mold as thick as large curd cottage cheese growing in the sheetrock. Now I see they are at it again, I personally met with counsel to the State License Board and she had it stopped about 15 years ago, but they are at it again.
 
First lets discuss the term "detection". If you can see mold then there must be a level where you can detect mold. So to what level are Building Inspectors going to detect mold? It is a slippery slope. Is it really mold? Did you run a lab test to determine what type of mold.

Years ago I worked in Wisconsin for the State. A news anchor asked me how the State was going to eliminate mold issues in homes. I clarified the question by asking the anchor if they really wanted to State to eradicate mold in the "Cheese State"? After the anchor stopped laughing we finished the interview.
 
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