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MOLD

I know this is an old thread, but I'm reviving it because my department (which is just me right now) is also tasked with code enforcement and we get a lot of mold calls. The Public Health Department refers people to us. Like others have said, I'm not a trained mold expert and I don't know how to identify a toxic mold vs. a benign mold. Our city council has tasked us with creating a Rental Inspection program so I'm looking into ways to address this better. Does anyone know of training or certification available to address this? Like others said, I can help identify where the moisture is coming from, and we have adopted the IPMC which we can use to help enforce this. I would like to present to the city some training or certification program that would qualify myself, or someone at the city, to help address real concerns. Any input is greatly appreciated.
 
Joe.B said:
I know this is an old thread, but I'm reviving it because my department (which is just me right now) is also tasked with code enforcement and we get a lot of mold calls. The Public Health Department refers people to us. Like others have said, I'm not a trained mold expert and I don't know how to identify a toxic mold vs. a benign mold. Our city council has tasked us with creating a Rental Inspection program so I'm looking into ways to address this better. Does anyone know of training or certification available to address this? Like others said, I can help identify where the moisture is coming from, and we have adopted the IPMC which we can use to help enforce this. I would like to present to the city some training or certification program that would qualify myself, or someone at the city, to help address real concerns. Any input is greatly appreciated.
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I don’t think you want that. For 1000’s if reasons

Just add wording to an ordinance stating you can require business/ owner to hire third party inspector and they furnish you a copy of the report,

Maybe also add you can require the place to be vacated, till issue resolved.
 
cda said:
I don’t think you want that. For 1000’s if reasons

Just add wording to an ordinance stating you can require business/ owner to hire third party inspector and they furnish you a copy of the report,

Maybe also add you can require the place to be vacated, till issue resolved.
Click to expand...
I hear you and appreciate the feedback. So if I understand you correctly enforcement would go something like this: "I'm sorry I can't post an unsafe to occupy notice because I'm not trained to identify mold but if you can provide evidence of toxic mold we will post an unsafe notice." Tennant then hires a third party to sample the mold, get it identified, then present a report stating the the toxic was identified at said address. Once we validate the report then we post the notice and begin the enforcement process? That sounds much better for us as a city entity, though it sounds like it limits the ability of tenants to prove the mold is toxic unless they can afford to prove it. I agree that seems like the best way to go, but how long do the tenants have to live with toxic mold before we can step in?

The case I'm dealing with is a historic Victorian house that has been converted into an apartment complex. One tenant has been sick for almost a year and finally got a diagnosis of toxic mold exposure from a doctor. She feels that this report from her doctor should be enough for us to start an enforcement. I don't have any way to prove that the mold she's been exposed to came from the house she's living in. So on top of everything else she and her daughter are dealing with, pandemic, unemployment, and being sick, she now has to track down someone to identify this mold as coming from the house? I can't even find anyone in our area qualified, or willing, to do this for her. Isn't this exactly what we are supposed to be able to help with? Fire Safety, Life Safety, and Health Safety. That's exactly what a building department is tasked with enforcing to protect our citizens.

It seems to me if I can get some training that it would be pretty easy to take some samples and send them to a lab. If it's ID'd as toxic mold, post the unsafe notice. That doesn't seem to outrageous. But I would definitely like to hear other reasons why I should be cautious, what am I missing or not thinking about? Thanks again for the discussion.
 
Joe.B said:
I hear you and appreciate the feedback. So if I understand you correctly enforcement would go something like this: "I'm sorry I can't post an unsafe to occupy notice because I'm not trained to identify mold but if you can provide evidence of toxic mold we will post an unsafe notice." Tennant then hires a third party to sample the mold, get it identified, then present a report stating the the toxic was identified at said address. Once we validate the report then we post the notice and begin the enforcement process? That sounds much better for us as a city entity, though it sounds like it limits the ability of tenants to prove the mold is toxic unless they can afford to prove it. I agree that seems like the best way to go, but how long do the tenants have to live with toxic mold before we can step in?

The case I'm dealing with is a historic Victorian house that has been converted into an apartment complex. One tenant has been sick for almost a year and finally got a diagnosis of toxic mold exposure from a doctor. She feels that this report from her doctor should be enough for us to start an enforcement. I don't have any way to prove that the mold she's been exposed to came from the house she's living in. So on top of everything else she and her daughter are dealing with, pandemic, unemployment, and being sick, she now has to track down someone to identify this mold as coming from the house? I can't even find anyone in our area qualified, or willing, to do this for her. Isn't this exactly what we are supposed to be able to help with? Fire Safety, Life Safety, and Health Safety. That's exactly what a building department is tasked with enforcing to protect our citizens.

It seems to me if I can get some training that it would be pretty easy to take some samples and send them to a lab. If it's ID'd as toxic mold, post the unsafe notice. That doesn't seem to outrageous. But I would definitely like to hear other reasons why I should be cautious, what am I missing or not thinking about? Thanks again for the discus
cda said:
I don’t think you want that. For 1000’s if reasons

Just add wording to an ordinance stating you can require business/ owner to hire third party inspector and they furnish you a copy of the report,

Maybe also add you can require the place to be vacated, till issue resolved.
Click to expand...
I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.
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I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.
 
IMHO, there is one simple reason that our building codes do not mention mold: To avoid LITIGATION and LAWSUITS.

Besides, there are more mold spores in Oregon alone than the number of people in the whole world.
 
I would say any kind of mold is a unsafe and/or nonsanitary condition and the owner should be required to fix it per IPMC. I wouldn't worry about what kind of mold it is. I'm sure the tenants could find a good ambulance chaser to sue for just a percent of the settlement.
 
Joe.B said:
I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.
Click to expand...

I think you can tell the owner space has to be vacated till you see lab results
 
Joe.B said:
I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.
Click to expand...

You might talk to a couple of moleoloigst,,

To either see what it takes to have some level of certification.

Or

How to collect properly and send to lab.
 
If the city goes into the mold collecting and sending for lab results

Who will pay for the lab??

and your training

Have you researched that cost
 
To me this is just like other stuff you see

House has a partial burn affecting electrical wire.

Owner asks ,,, How much do I have to replace.

Your answer ,,,, Hire an electrician!!!

You do not normally open walls, boxes, etc to examine
 
Inspector Gift said:
IMHO, there is one simple reason that our building codes do not mention mold: To avoid LITIGATION and LAWSUITS.

Besides, there are more mold spores in Oregon alone than the number of people in the whole world.
Click to expand...
We are so far north in CA (and so far different) that we might as well be Oregon. I see mold on almost every rental inspection I do. It's wet here and if you have an old house with lots of leaks and just a crappy old wall furnace, you're going to get mold. Like others have posted I tend to look for the cause of the moisture and enforce those things. This old Victorian building is HUGE, they call it the Pythian Castle and it's an amazing building, and her apartment is actually very nice.

The mold that's she's complaining about is not growing inside of her apartment, it's growing in the rest of the building. She says the roof leaks, but I can't get into the attic to see. She said other apartments have water damage in the lid and walls, but I haven't been invited to inspect those apartments. The shared laundry area has visible black mold growing on the walls, and the exterior of the building has visible black mold growing everywhere, it is in bad need of a power washing and a complete repaint. Also needs a new roof. Apparently landlords are "cheap" and only do the minimum maintenance. That's not my business though. As a longtime resident of a coastal wet climate I know there's mold everywhere and it's the city council that wants a rental inspection program. There are no local labs that can identify specific mold types, and there are no local service companies that will sample mold and send it to get tested. As an official I can't imagine that I could accept a lab result without knowing where the sample was taken from. The only way I could know is to take the sample myself. I also feel like I can't accept her doctors note about mold exposure because I don't know where else she could be exposed to mold. There is a huge cannabis industry here, both legal and not, and I know there's lots of mold in the places cannabis workers work.

I will be getting price quotes on mold tests, looking for training or certification available, and presenting it to the city council as part of our rental inspection program. Up to them if they want me to do this or not. I agree there is massive potential for lawsuits and litigation, that's a huge risk. I've also read studies on toxic black mold and it seems pretty gnarly. Anyways not my decision, just wanted to get educated and hear feedback.

Thanks so much!!
 
The mold may be a health problem but unless you can quote a code provision it is not something you can take action against. Even then you can only write up the code violation.

If anybody has the authority to post the building based on mold I suspect that it is the public health department.

If your jurisdiction were to adopt a local ordinance dealing with this your jurisdiction should check with state laws and related programs.

Just because you do not know of any local consultants, labs, or lawyers dealing with these issues does not mean that they do not exist.
 
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