New ice cream parlor - egress plan questions - historic building

[markhuebbe]

I need some advice on an egress plan. I'm helping a friend for free with their building plans and trying to get them approved by the City plan reviewer. A bit of background info: Building was built in 1860s and last use was general retail B business occupancy. Non-sprinkler building. City uses 2015 codes (IBC, IEBC, etc) There are buildings abutting each side, with a level exit to Main street out of the front door and alley exit off the rear. Just picture your standard small town Main street with long narrow brick buildings. New occupancy is 47 and City so far seems OK with everything I've submitted to them. One comment I got back was needing an egress plan and egress can't pass through kitchens or storage areas.



I've attached a snip from the floor plan with some colored lines for each space. Green is the retail area (OL=38), red is the diagonal of the kitchen (OL=8), and orange is the back mail room (OL=1).



Since the green line is under 75' and discharges directly to the exterior, is it permitted to have one exit?





What about the orange line in the mail room? The room exit is to an exit stair corridor that discharges to the rear alley. The rear portion of the building is about 5'-6' higher than the alley, so that's why there are stairs leading down out the back. Can that mailroom space be permitted to have one exit so that it doesn't egress through the kitchen?

I've uploaded a PDF of the floor plan https://www.dropbox.com/s/3gwobdcrrlqisg2/302-N-MAIN-egress.pdf?dl=0

 

[cda]

Well the general public is not exiting the kitchen or storage???

Correct???

 

[markhuebbe]

Well the general public is not exiting the kitchen or storage???

Correct???

Correct, but employees who are in the kitchen could exit through the mail room.

 

[cda]

Correct, but employees who are in the kitchen could exit through the mail room.

Should be allowed under intervening rule

 

[cda]

Is that a cased opening between the kitchen and mail room?

 

[markhuebbe]

Should be allowed under intervening rule

Could you point me to that rule?

The opening between kitchen and mail room is a cased opening with no door.

 

[cda]

This is 2018 version,,,
Check it against the IBC you Are using

1016.2



Egress through intervening spaces shall comply with this section.

1. Exit access through an enclosed elevator lobby is permitted. Access to not less than one of the required exitsshall be provided without travel through the enclosed elevator lobbies required by Section 3006. Where the path of exit access travel passes through an enclosed elevator lobby, the level of protection required for the enclosed elevator lobby is not required to be extended to the exitunless direct access to an exitis required by other sections of this code.
2. Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.
   Exception: Means of egressare not prohibited through adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces in a Group H, S or F occupancy where the adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces are the same or a lesser hazard occupancy group.
3. An exit access shall not pass through a room that can be locked to prevent egress.
4. Means of egress from dwelling units or sleeping areas shall not lead through other sleeping areas, toilet rooms or bathrooms.
5. Egress shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, closets or spaces used for similar purposes.
   Exceptions:
   1. Means of egressare not prohibited through a kitchen area serving adjoining rooms constituting part of the same dwelling unit or sleeping unit.
   2. Means of egressare not prohibited through stockrooms in Group M occupancies where all of the following are met:
      1. 2.1. The stock is of the same hazard classification as that found in the main retail area.
      2. 2.2. Not more than 50 percent of the exit access is through the stockroom.
      3. 2.3. The stockroom is not subject to locking from the egress side.
      4. 2.4. There is a demarcated, minimum 44-inch-wide (1118 mm) aisle defined by full- or partial-height fixed walls or similar construction that will maintain the required width and lead directly from the retail area to the exitwithout obstructions.

 

[TheCommish]

lose the closet or relocat it to the north into the mail room, the you have a straight shot out to the stairs

 

[markhuebbe]

lose the closet or relocat it to the north into the mail room, the you have a straight shot out to the stairs

Can't do that. It's a mechanical closet with a brick wall.

 

[cda]

Can't do that. It's a mechanical closet with a brick wall.

2. Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.
Exception: Means of egressare not prohibited through adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces in a Group H, S or F occupancy where the adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces are the same or a lesser hazard occupancy group.


Just a question, 1. How is the mail room connected with this business??? Same owner???

Just wonder why the case opening, between the two??

And whoever controls the mail room, is allowing access thru it?

 

[markhuebbe]

This is 2018 version,,,
Check it against the IBC you Are using

1016.2



Egress through intervening spaces shall comply with this section.

1. Exit access through an enclosed elevator lobby is permitted. Access to not less than one of the required exitsshall be provided without travel through the enclosed elevator lobbies required by Section 3006. Where the path of exit access travel passes through an enclosed elevator lobby, the level of protection required for the enclosed elevator lobby is not required to be extended to the exitunless direct access to an exitis required by other sections of this code.
2. Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.
   Exception: Means of egressare not prohibited through adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces in a Group H, S or F occupancy where the adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces are the same or a lesser hazard occupancy group.
3. An exit access shall not pass through a room that can be locked to prevent egress.
4. Means of egress from dwelling units or sleeping areas shall not lead through other sleeping areas, toilet rooms or bathrooms.
5. Egress shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, closets or spaces used for similar purposes.
   Exceptions:
   1. Means of egressare not prohibited through a kitchen area serving adjoining rooms constituting part of the same dwelling unit or sleeping unit.
   2. Means of egressare not prohibited through stockrooms in Group M occupancies where all of the following are met:
      1. 2.1. The stock is of the same hazard classification as that found in the main retail area.
      2. 2.2. Not more than 50 percent of the exit access is through the stockroom.
      3. 2.3. The stockroom is not subject to locking from the egress side.
      4. 2.4. There is a demarcated, minimum 44-inch-wide (1118 mm) aisle defined by full- or partial-height fixed walls or similar construction that will maintain the required width and lead directly from the retail area to the exitwithout obstructions.

2015 IBC snip:


Does #2 trump #5? Would a mail room be considered storage or closet space? In reading the commentary section of the code it states: "A customer means of egress should not be through the working portions of a commercial kitchen behind a restaurant or the stock storage area of a storage room behind a mercantile occupancy..." Should my reply to the City building reviewer quote this commentary? Kitchen staff would be in a high hazard area already and won't be passing through a higher hazard area by exiting through the mail room. I don't even know if you'd call a mail room a storage room.

 

[markhuebbe]

2. Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.
Exception: Means of egressare not prohibited through adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces in a Group H, S or F occupancy where the adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces are the same or a lesser hazard occupancy group.


Just a question, 1. How is the mail room connected with this business??? Same owner???

Just wonder why the case opening, between the two??

And whoever controls the mail room, is allowing access thru it?

It's all the same business. Ice cream store makes their own product and ships it nationwide. The opening between the kitchen and the mail room is just an opening in the wall without a door. Just picture a double door opening with door trim around the opening, but no doors. If there is no door between those two spaces, could it be considered one space? The owner won't use that mail room as commercial kitchen (mainly due to the existing employee bathroom opening directly into that space) but also doesn't want to renovate that room with new floor and possibly adding FRP to the walls for the health inspector.

 

[cda]

As long as you do not label it storage it is normally not.

I would document back to the city

1. Exiting thru the mail room is only for kitchen staff

2. The mail room is owned by same person as Ice cream place

3. Will be glad, even though not required to yellow hash mark path from kitchen to exit.

plus any other architect language you want to add.

Submit it back and see if it flies.

Will the same people that work in the kitchen be taking finished product into the mail room?????

If do add that comment

 

[cda]

2015 IBC snip:
View attachment 8115

Does #2 trump #5? Would a mail room be considered storage or closet space? In reading the commentary section of the code it states: "A customer means of egress should not be through the working portions of a commercial kitchen behind a restaurant or the stock storage area of a storage room behind a mercantile occupancy..." Should my reply to the City building reviewer quote this commentary? Kitchen staff would be in a high hazard area already and won't be passing through a higher hazard area by exiting through the mail room. I don't even know if you'd call a mail room a storage room.

Does #2 trump #5?

Yes if employee use only,,,, normally

 

[Tim Mailloux]

not related to your egress question, but have you dug into any impacts a change of occupancy under the IEBC could have on your project? You stated in your original post the the previous use of the building was retail business, probably an M occupancy. The commercial kitchen potion of the project is probably an F-1 occupancy and the ice cream shop is a B occupancy which means you could be looking at a change of occupancy under the IEBC chapter 10.

I would also double check your toilet / plumbing counts. In my state we would not be able to get away with only one single user toilet in a B/F-1 occupancy.

 

[markhuebbe]

not related to your egress question, but have you dug into any impacts a change of occupancy under the IEBC could have on your project? You stated in your original post the the previous use of the building was retail business, probably an M occupancy. The commercial kitchen potion of the project is probably an F-1 occupancy and the ice cream shop is a B occupancy which means you could be looking at a change of occupancy under the IEBC chapter 10.

I would also double check your toilet / plumbing counts. In my state we would not be able to get away with only one single user toilet in a B/F-1 occupancy.

City is ok with one bathroom since the old occupancy was B and under 50 and we're not increasing occupancy more than the 20% rule under IEBC. We will have one new ADA bathroom and one employee existing bathroom. I think commercial kitchen associated with dining/restaurant area is assembly, but will be under 50 occupant load.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

Considering the size of that Kitchen and the mail order component of the business I would consider the back 2/3s of the space (Kitchen & Mail room) to be an F-1 occupancy. I have done a handful of projects for a regoinal chain with a similar operation and the Kitchen has always been a F-1 and we even called out the mail room area as S-2 because stock was being stored there before it was shipped out to customers.