NFPA 13 or 13R

[jar546]

Existing building, level 3 alteration of a university dorm, 3 stories with structural changes and layout changes.

On another thread, I showed you the sprinkler drawings that I was given. (all other drawings were professionally done and stamped)

See drawings and previous thread here: http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-fire-codes/11420-sprinkler-drawings-3-story-dorm.html

I was just contacted by the designer of that PDF who notified me that:

1) The existing system is NFPA 13, not 13R. No part of the system meets NFPA 13R even though it was installed in 2000 and it was a dorm back then

2) They are not just moving heads, they are doing a lot more work because of the redesign. We both believe the RDP thought this was a case of just moving some heads.

3) He was unable to find any calculations for the previous installation

4) He believes that this should be and should have been a 13R system. I concur.

The question is this:

Is it possible to meet 13R on an existing 13 system without a complete retrofit?

One of the sprinkler companies that was unsuccessful at bidding had bid to replace the system.

 

[cda]

yes.......

not a designer or FPE, but

But I would have someone confirm that the original is a true nfpa 13 system. One possible way to tell is if there is an sprinkler head in every enclosure, with just a few exceptions, and per 13 not 13 R.

The other thing, is the attic combustible construction? and if so is it sprinkled??

Some reason not to leave it 13???

also, was there a trade off given for installing a 13 system on the original build??

If I was reviewing I would want to see new calcs anyway

 

[Coug Dad]

A NFPA 13 system is a "higher" level of protection than a 13R system.

 

[jar546]

Just got confirmation that the existing 13 system has the quick response heads so it is current and will way exceed the 13r requirements. We were thinking that they had old heads that had to be upgraded anyway. We are asking for new hydraulic calcs since the old ones are 13 years old and there has been an increase load on the water companies end and there will be an increased load on the system. All is well in doggy town.

 

[cda]

So is the attic combustible ??

 

[jar546]

So is the attic combustible ??

Good question. I will have to look at the prints again.

 

[cda]

Also will have to look at 13 and 13R but I am thinking on existing residential they do not require replacement of existing heads if they are not Qr

 

[jar546]

Since it is a Level 3 gut job and it was previously NFPA 13 and they are adding to the system and moving the heads to new locations they have to bring it up to current standards, either 13 or 13R with new heads. They can do residential heads in the dwelling units but they lucked out because the existing heads were QRs.

 

[FM William Burns]

Remember to verify that they don't mix and match and replace heads in accordance with:

8.3.3.2 Where quick-response sprinklers are installed, all sprinklers within a compartment shall be quick-response unless otherwise permitted in 8.3.3.3.8.3.3.3 Where there are no listed quick-response sprinklers in the temperature range required, standard-response sprinklers shall be permitted to be used.

8.3.3.4 When existing light hazard systems are converted to use quick-response or residential sprinklers, all sprinklers in a compartment shall be changed.

 

[Frank]

NFPA 13 Does not allow the installation of used sprinkler heads the new edtion go so far to state that when a head is removed for any reason it shall be replaced.