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Non Conforming Building

Mac

Mac

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
716
Location
Hamilton, NY
In the old part of the village, we have old 'carriage barns' which have been converted to garages, and storage uses. Most of them are non conforming as in too close to lot lines.

Here is the rule on them:

§*174-70. Alterations or reconstruction.

A. A nonconforming building or use may not be reconstructed or structurally altered during its life to an extent exceeding in aggregate cost 50% of the fair value of the building, unless the use of such building is changed to a conforming use.

B. A building or structure devoted to a nonconforming use or otherwise nonconforming, destroyed by fire or other cause to an extent exceeding 50% of the cost of replacement of the building or structure, shall not be repaired or rebuilt except in conformity with the provisions of this chapter.

Now, I have a building permit application for $40,000 in repairs to one of the old things. It's difficult to determine whether the law allows the work or not. Or if it is allowed but the building needs to be relocated to a conforming (setback) area?

Maybe I need an English major!
 
Seems straightforward to me, the valuation will be the trickiest. Once established, less than 50%, go for it. More than 50%, entire project must comply as any with "new" building. JMHO
 
"Setback" is a term for the distance a building must be built from a property line. Sides, front, and back are generally different distances, sides usually being a lesser distance. The barn in question above is a scant six feet from the rear line, where the setback is (supposed to be) fifty feet. Oh, and $40K is several times the value of the building.
 
You should require an a ppraiser to determine the replacement value of the building.

unless the use of such building is changed to a conforming use.
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Are they changing the use of the building from a "barn" to something else? Say an accessory garage, game room, wood shop.

You can probaly play it a couple of different ways. My point is a setback is usually a zoning or site development requirement and the powers that be that use those codes should be making the determination not the building department. We deal with fire seperation distances annd the code allows for a zero distance if rated construction is used. Don't get drug into being the one to make the call. Most planners and zoning officials do not view things on a black or white issue they always see things through rose colored glasses and can easily justify the positions they take.
 
Mac said:
"Setback" is a term for the distance a building must be built from a property line. Sides, front, and back are generally different distances, sides usually being a lesser distance. The barn in question above is a scant six feet from the rear line, where the setback is (supposed to be) fifty feet. Oh, and $40K is several times the value of the building.
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And why does this make you want to say "no?"
 
"A building or structure... otherwise non conforming... shall not be repaired or rebuilt except in conformity..."

I have the assessment data, complete application, and the responsibility for enforcement. There's no one locally that can help make a determination.

Thanks for the comments!
 
Mac said:
"A building or structure... otherwise non conforming... shall not be repaired or rebuilt except in conformity..." I have the assessment data, complete application, and the responsibility for enforcement. There's no one locally that can help make a determination. Thanks for the comments!
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Are you sure that $40k is several times the use value of the structure? If so please point me to the contractor who will build a garage for less than $13,333.
 
brudgers said:
Are you sure that $40k is several times the use value of the structure? If so please point me to the contractor who will build a garage for less than $13,333.
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Since these are old 'carriage barns' they are likely to be quite an age and, as I'm sure you'd agree, buildings depreciate over time, so the value of one of these structures is not likely to be over 80,000$. Since this is a zoning requirement the municipality has chosen these rules for there town/city. As a municipal employee why should I be able to circumvent regulations put into place by democratically elected officials.

Mac, we have a similar rule here, but ours calls our 50% square footage rather than the value of the renovation.
 
tmurray said:
Since these are old 'carriage barns' they are likely to be quite an age and, as I'm sure you'd agree, buildings depreciate over time, so the value of one of these structures is not likely to be over 80,000$. Since this is a zoning requirement the municipality has chosen these rules for there town/city. As a municipal employee why should I be able to circumvent regulations put into place by democratically elected officials. Mac, we have a similar rule here, but ours calls our 50% square footage rather than the value of the renovation.
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Perfectly maintained property can be depreciated...in fact, the computer I'm using to post this has been depreciated to zero dollars - replacement value is another matter. Beyond that the current law is entirely counter-productive.

It encourages two behaviors which are undesirable: allowing structures to pass into a state of dilapidation and construction of renovations without a permit.

Let's be clear, the property owner is trying to do the right thing...repair an existing structure.

And while we're at it, let's be clear about another thing, the zoning regulations are poorly considered because they are incompatible with existing legitimate and economically productive uses of the land. Some lazy jackass just copied rules from the suburbs rather than doing real work.
 
"do you have a local zoning board of appeals that the applicant can go before and seek a variance to the zoning requirement?"

Yes, and there is a provision allowing the ZBA to render an interpretation of the law also. I'm leaning in that direction, and will talk to the owner tomorrow. The ZBA meets on demand, so we can have this cleared up in less than two weeks.
 
we have the same issues around here, 200 year old structures that are non-comforming with current zoning requirements, sometimes ZBA will allow renovation/repair/replacement if same footprint. Sometimes we have to leave one existing wall and build around it, then come back later and get a permit to replace the existing wall. Talk about having to walk around the water bucket to get the laddle ....
 
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