• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Occupancy Classification: Baseball Dugout - Press Box - Concession Stand

E

error404

Bronze Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Messages
49
Location
United States
Hello,

I'm working in a remodeling of a high school Baseball Dugout, Press Box, and Concession Stand (small little building).

Project is under the 5th Edition of the Florida Building Code (but, the FBC is basically the same as the IBC... if someone point me in the right direction, I will be able to find it).

So what is the Occupancy classification?

The definition of Educational doesn't seem to fit in.

It could be some type of mixed use... Assembly (because of the dugout bleachers ) and Mercantile (because of the concession stand)... but it seems kind of an over kill (will I need a 2 hour separation per table 508.4?)

I found under Chapter 4 - SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS BASED ON USE & OCCUPANCY some interesting stuff like:

453.10.5.4 Related facilities such as toilets, concessions, storage, shower and locker rooms, bleachers,press boxes, observation platforms, scoreboards, and dugouts shall be designed to meet code requirements and the occupant capacity anticipated for the program.

Is there such a thing as "Especial Occupancy"? <-
 
http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/fl/st/index.htm (link from ICC to the published Florida codes)

As a practical matter the ball field is an A-5 and the dugout is part of that classification. Depending on size the other areas may fall into 'accessory' category, though there will be some specific requirements to be met. (small little building) to one person may be a (large big building) to another. Are they selling hot dogs out of a storage shed? Or does it have a commercial kitchen, indoor customer waiting area, etc. For the press box actual size will matter as well. Things like accessibility may get a pass if it is small enough.
 
The individual elements you describe have their own individual requirements based on use. Given that they are on an educational property your state may consider the entire facility an "E", the fire department will have specific requirements based on the use of each element and its proximity to other uses. Access requirements for each may overlap and in some cases superceed fire code and building code requirements. I take it Florida does not have a state agency similar to California's DSA that reviews and approves plans for schools but defers to local AHJ's?
 
Thank you for everyone's comments

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/fl/st/index.htm (link from ICC to the published Florida codes)As a practical matter the ball field is an A-5 and the dugout is part of that classification. Depending on size the other areas may fall into 'accessory' category, though there will be some specific requirements to be met. (small little building) to one person may be a (large big building) to another.
Click to expand...
Building is about 800 sq.ft. (that includes about 160 sq.ft. for the press box, 220 sq.ft. for the concession stand, 120 sq.ft. for the storage area, and 300 sq.ft. for the dugout)

Are they selling hot dogs out of a storage shed? Or does it have a commercial kitchen, indoor customer waiting area, etc.
Click to expand...
No commercial Kitchen. There will be no food preparation of any type.

No indoor waiting area. There will be a pass-through window with a counter

For the press box actual size will matter as well. Things like accessibility may get a pass if it is small enough.
Click to expand...
We looked into that... We made it small enough and high enough so it will not need to be accessible per 206.2.7 of the 2010 ADA. and 206.2.7 of the 2015 Florida Accessibility
 
With that said revert back to chapter 3http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/2014_Florida/Building%20Code/Chapter%203.html

Press box B?

Snack bar M?

Dug out nothing
Click to expand...
I don't see the Press Box as Business... But I'm kind of liking the idea of A-5 (now I need to figure out if the concession stand fits as an accessory building).

I take these are three separate areas ??
Click to expand...
3 separate areas , but it's one single building. The Dugout opens to the baseball field, the concession stand is separated by a 8" cmu wall and opens to the opposite side, and the press box is on top of it.

Some reason you have to have an occupancy type??
Click to expand...
I personally don't care what type of occupancy is, since it shouldn't affect us much in the design. But one of the building department comments was to add Type of Occupancy.

Is this high school or below or college??
Click to expand...
It's for a high school
 
Originally posted by cdaView Post Is this high school or below or college??

It's for a high school

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

SECTION 305 EDUCATIONAL GROUP E

305.1 Educational Group E.

Educational Group E occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, by six or more persons at any one time for educational purposes through the 12th grade.
 
Even if you separately classify each portion, the non-separated mixed use provisions will give you no issues with Code compliance. Any occupancy classifications you assign will be so far below the allowable areas and building heights that the sum of the ratios will be ridiculously below 1 per story.

The press box as a B is not so far fetched... radio and television stations are listed. Frankly they are ALL accessory to the A-5 as they only exist because of and to serve a function of the A-5.

Now if they want to make a snack bar out of the concession stand we could have a different conversation.

Generally I agree that the blanket of E occupancy could be appropriate, they may allow others to use the field (youth soccer program, etc.) so calling it an A-5 may well be more appropriate.
 
# = # = #

FWIW, ...I too believe the overall occupancy classification should

be an E.......The structures at the ball field [ IMO ]; depending

upon the conditions, might have their own Occ. Group classifications

and requirements.........Either way, ADA \ Accessibility requirements

are still needed !

# = # = #
 
Even if you separately classify each portion, the non-separated mixed use provisions will give you no issues with Code compliance. Any occupancy classifications you assign will be so far below the allowable areas and building heights that the sum of the ratios will be ridiculously below 1 per story.The press box as a B is not so far fetched... radio and television stations are listed. Frankly they are ALL accessory to the A-5 as they only exist because of and to serve a function of the A-5.

Now if they want to make a snack bar out of the concession stand we could have a different conversation.

Generally I agree that the blanket of E occupancy could be appropriate, they may allow others to use the field (youth soccer program, etc.) so calling it an A-5 may well be more appropriate.
Click to expand...
The majority of the time it shoould be an "E"

Not sure if looking at the crystal ball should be done, when the school is rented out for a church,,, or to house hurricane evac's or a
 
The majority of the time it shoould be an "E"

Not sure if looking at the crystal ball should be done, when the school is rented out for a church,,, or to house hurricane evac's or a
Click to expand...
Looks like I have the "ICE disease""

I knew I should have gotten my affluenza shot!!!!!
 
Agree with JBI

Not large enough that it makes difference what you call

IMHO

If it is located on school grounds and used by the school during the day it is an "E" use.

If not used during the day for school activities and is used for viewing games played between different schools then it would be an A-5 no matter where it is located.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top