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Oklahoma Earthquake

Uncle Bob

Uncle Bob

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Joined
Oct 17, 2009
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1,409
Location
Texas
We had a 4.5 earthquake about 6 miles east of Norman, Oklahoma (where I live), about 9 am this morning. I heard a loud noise; like an explosion; that last for about 30 seconds; and, my building shook for about the same time. Wow, I've never been in an earthquake before. Police thought that there was an explosion and they were running all over the area with sirens blaring. No real damage has been reported so far; but, what a ride.

We have been getting a lot of smaller earthquakes in Central Oklahoma (2.4) in recent months. It was quite an experience.

Uncle Bob

 
Wow! Tornadoes and earthquakes......What's next?? tsunami??

I have only been in 1 earthquake...it was in Washington State...I was driving along and I thought it was just a high wind, then I noticed the roads rolling.
 
Not to worry Uncle Bobby, you will soon be getting California style earthquake codes, you too can start inspecting $1,000 to $2,000+ a square foot homes.
 
All it takes is an earthquake or two before people start believing in earthquakes.

It is mis-information to suggest that $1,000 and $2,000 / sf homes are due to earthquake codes. Many of the seismic provisions are reduced in regions of moderate to light seismic risk like Oaklahoma.

The best thing that a jurisdiction can do to promote earthquake safety is to have an effective and properly staffed building department. This will encourage the developers and contractors to make an effort to comply with the code.
 
They have been taking oil out of the ground in Oklahoma for many years; and I don't think they are filling up the empty space with anything. A lot of natural gas too.

It was a weird experience. I expect it to get more frequent. With the tornados and high winds here; there aren't many dull months.

They don't enforce the codes they have here. Won't bother anyone if they adopt some more.

Uncle Bob
 
Mark said:
It is mis-information to suggest that $1,000 and $2,000 / sf homes are due to earthquake codes. Many of the seismic provisions are reduced in regions of moderate to light seismic risk like Oaklahoma.
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Mark:

Granted that there are reduced seismic zones, yet in all seismic zones we are completely at the mercy of the structural engineers, I've posted before what we go though. If you can get structural engineers do design less, have at it, but they are going crazy around here, and then still being torn apart by the local inspectors. I have a deadline of tonight to my steel detailer for the shop drawings for a home. I told him to get me what he has by tonight, the AHJ is going to redline everything anyway and he'll get another shot at it.
 
We are neighbors. I am located in Arkansas. Last week, I attended ATC20 training for postearthquake safety evaluation of buildings. The issue of new technology methods for drilling for gas horizontally across shale deposits came up as a possible contributor for increased activity. I don't know squat about it except to say that if you drill enough holes in anything solid, it will eventually give.

Anyway, you would be a great candidate for ATC-20 training . . . sets you up to be a volunteer to help evaluate damage to structures resuting from a natural disaster.

Too bad they don't enforce codes in OK, still, I appreciate the work you have done in these forums and bb's.
 
A quick view of the spectral response maps indicate that Norman OK is near a local focal point with numbers in the range of what people would recognize as "moderate" seismic areas of the west, and higher than almost everything east of the Mississippi. You probably end up with Seismic Design Category C for any critical facilities, perhaps even D in poor soil. C could pop up in lesser occupancies in poor soil.
 
The anti-profit, anti-corporation, environmentalist hippy leftists always try to attribute natural disasters to some form of human activity.

Unfortunately for them, earthquakes are caused by movement of the Earth's tectonic plates.....period.

But, hey, if you want to believe it's our fault (ha!) that earthquakes occur, then don't let mere facts get in your way.
 
packsaddle said:
The anti-profit, anti-corporation, environmentalist hippy leftists always try to attribute natural disasters to some form of human activity.Unfortunately for them, earthquakes are caused by movement of the Earth's tectonic plates.....period.

But, hey, if you want to believe it's our fault (ha!) that earthquakes occur, then don't let mere facts get in your way.
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The movement of the tectonic plates are caused by what mere facts?
 
Now UB I thought that was you shaking up the BB and did give it a second thought. Now you say it was a an earth quake. Will have to change your screen name to earthquake BOB or uncle quake!
 
rktect 1 said:
2012. the big one is coming.watch for the signs.
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Yes, everything west of Enid will crumble into the Pacific Ocean. Bob and I will at once be both blessed and cursed. Yes, we'll have oceanfront property. But we'll also be the New California, which means we'll have the responsibility to foist our ridiculousness on the rest of the country.

There is not a shred of evidence that links horizontal drilling and/or hydraulic fracturing to earthquakes. Period. It is a straw man argument fabricated by opponents to limit gas production.
 
RJJ,

I like Uncle Quack, lol. The drilling might not causes the earthquakes; but, I do believe the open spaces below the ground could cause a lot of problems. Packs, tutonic plates could cause those empty spaces to open up and that could cause a lot of problems.

Nah, I'll stick with Uncle Bob,

Uncle Bob
 
Some earthquakes have been associated with dams. The added weight plus the water seeping into the faults has increased the number of earthquakes. The total displacement along the fault over time should be unchanged but you can see more smaller earthquakes.

If when they drill they put drilling mud into the holes it might contribute to the problem.
 
Oil and gas are usually in porous rock not great holes underground. Hydro-fracturing usually opens up cracks about the size of a grain of sand or two that is used to help keep the cracks open. Drilling mud just helps to keep the oil and gas in the hole until the well is completed. It is sometimes removed and sometimes left in the well.
 
Conarb

You talk about the structural engineers designing less. In general they are doing what the code requires. If the buildings were simpler they would have less to do. You would have less to do if they did not require compliance with the building code.

Once the engineer designs something he needs to document what needs to be done unless you believe that the contractors know what to do. They often do not.

I would suggest that rather than complaining about what gets built that you sit down with the designers to explore options early. Then they can either explain why things are needed or both of you can find a better solution. This may result in higher design fees but could potentially save the project money.

I do not understand why the plan checker even needs to see shop drawings unless they are part of a deferred submittal and they decided to submit stamped shop drawings instead of design drawings for the deferred submittal.

If you have a problem with plan checkers and inspectors being arbitrary do not lay the blame on the structural engineer.

These are the type of complaints I hear from developers who do not appreciate the issues.
 
... you too can start inspecting $1,000 to $2,000+ a square foot homes...
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Here, in Earthquake Country, Wind usually still governs Engineering. Obviously written by someone that doesn’t do Engineering.
 
Mark:

I was in going over plans with my structural engineer a couple of weeks ago, he applied both seismic and wind loading separately on the house he was engineering for me animating them in his Risa program, I was really impressed seeing the building move and flex with the different loadings. I got my completed shop drawings this afternoon, 33 pages which I am submitting with my permit application Friday. I am going with a full steel frame on this one after $35,000 worth of Simpson products on the last one. I'm going to the printer's tomorrow, I think the plans for this house will hit 100 pages.
 
Around here they not only require soils reports but now are requiring a geological investigation, that involves trenching with a backhoe so the engineers can physically see soils layers. No Taj Mahal, simple 3,600 square foot house replacing an existing 4,000 square foot house, but we are spending quite a bit more so it's classified as a remodel and not a rebuild or new house.
 
Conarb

I am starting to understand why your construction costs are so high.

It appears that many of the steel members could be eliminated or replaced by wood members. I have found the connection between steel members and wood construction to be expensive and can cause problems with other building systems.

I recommend sorting out the interface between the steel members and the electrical and plumbing components before you get into construction. On residential projects the plumbers and electricians are used to adjusting the wood in the field to allow their pipes and conduits to pass but this does not work that way with steel framing.

Also make sure that the steel fabricator/errector can place the steel plumb enough that it will hide in the 6" walls. The errection tolerances are likely more than you assume. Similar situations have caused problems before. You could have a situation where the errector places the steel within common industry tolerances per his contract which leaves you to spend a lot of time trying to sort problems out during construction.

How does an 8-1/8"wide W8x35 fit in an 6" or 8" wall (actually 7-1/4") or am I misreading the drawings?

Check if the OSHA rule that requires 4 anchor bolts at the base of columns applies.

Understand the tolerances on the individual beams. Sweep could cause you problems.
 
Mark:

All walls are 2x8 plates with double 2x4 studs, we have to leave up 50% of the existing walls to qualify as a remodel and stay away from being considered new. We also have to put 6" fiberglass batts in the walls and I never allow insulation to touch the WRB unless the building is constructed with a rain screen, it also eliminates the sealing effect of plywood sheathing allowing the walls to breathe, and allows walls of glass to capture heat, something that we could never do with plywood sheathing. Look at this addition, even with sheathing the structural engineers are requiring so much steel that you might just as well take all shear with steel. Building with wood is becoming a nightmare since we can't get old growth lumber anymore, this new growth stuff is terrible and I recuse to use this engineered crap.

Steel solves a lot of inspection problems too, in the house I posted above there were 7 days of constant framing inspections, never once was the work faulted, but the inspector kept challenging the structural engineer making him redraw half of his details and submit new calculations after finding nothing in plan check, there were also two 3" ring binders full of engineering details that the inspector kept calling for, finding them is difficult, I think I am going to put PDFs into a laptop indexed so then the inspector calls for ES Reports or engineering details not on the plans I can access them easily.
 
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