Old house to restaraunt

[Sifu]

I have been asked about converting a very old house to a restaraunt. It is not something I would inspect, not in my jurisdiction. Just a friend asking for advice. In general I told him to consult an architect and engineer but I have a specific question. His plan is for 54 seats. I told him reducing to 49 might ease things from an A-2 to a B occupancy, and reduce required complying exits from 2 to 1. Now I'm not so sure. Does the occupant load of 49 include employees? If he reduced his seats for sale by 5 it might not hurt him too much but if he needs to further reduce them by the number of employees on site it probably wouldn't work. Also, if he could reduce from 2 exits to 1 I told him the one would need to be accessible. But if he actually has 2 exits (but only needs 1), say one from the kitchen for employees only, would it be ignored or would it need to be fully compliant and accessible just because it is there?

 

[rshuey]

You in PA?

 

[mark handler]

Occupancy is total occupants, include employees.

It is also a function of square footage, of each funtion space.

Yes he needs to consult an architect or engineer

 

[Mark K]

By changing the occupancy the building would be governed by the IBC as opposed to the IRC. 2012 IBC Section 3408.1 would require that the building be brought into conformance with the curent code. This would likely mean that the lateral system would need to be upgraded and depending on the existing floor joists they may need to be reinforced.

It might be quicker to build a new building.

 

[steveray]

In agreement with Mark(and others).....the change of use would drive just about every code requirement as new....probably not worth it....unless it's historic....I see alot of people overlooking the structural upgrades....

By changing the occupancy the building would be governed by the IBC as opposed to the IRC. 2012 IBC Section 3408.1 would require that the building be brought into conformance with the curent code. This would likely mean that the lateral system would need to be upgraded and depending on the existing floor joists they may need to be reinforced.It might be quicker to build a new building.

 

[jar546]

In agreement with Mark(and others).....the change of use would drive just about every code requirement as new....probably not worth it....unless it's historic....I see alot of people overlooking the structural upgrades....

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes

 

[Sifu]

No, not in PA. Once was, a long time ago.

As far as all the other thoughts I am already there. I am walking a thin line here so I told him to consult DP's so I wouldn't be the bad guy. I offered the following advice. As a change of occupancy he would probably be expected to bring all structure and systems into compliance with current codes. I specifically warned him about structure. I have not been in the house but I know the general condition and it probably wouldn't make it as a residential structure much less a 100lb commercial. I also alerted him about accessibility, commercial cooking and mechanical, means of egress, energy and life safety. I did not do this to discourage him, only to open his eyes and to be proactive in his approach, and mostly to encourage consulting a DP.

The occupancy load thing threw me. Obviously this type of occupancy change isn't something I do every day. I didn't know if the dining room/bar area would carry its own occupancy limit with the kitchen being accessory and carrying its own. Thats why he needs a DP I guess. The area of town he is in has several of these converted homes to eateries. I don't know how strict the codes are there so I can't say how much trouble he might run into. Just showing him the possible pitfalls.

 

[SCBO1]

A few items that get overlooked: Commercial zoning, parking, floor loading and support, grease trap, emergency lighting, occupant load posting, door issues, bathroom not meeting current ADA requirements & improper ramp design. And later comes the expansion due to not enough space for the kitchen.

And that's just at the cafe I eat at!

pc1

 

[brudgers]

Your friend can easily make a small fortune converting an old house into a restaurant.

Provided, of course, that your friend has a large fortune already.

 

[mtlogcabin]

He needs to hire a DP and use Section 3412 from the IBC.

3412.3 Acceptance.

For repairs, alterations, additions and changes of occupancy to existing buildings that are evaluated in accordance with this section, compliance with this section shall be accepted by the building official .

The Building Official will then have a document to follow that will insure a save structure for the intended use when completed.

 

[steveray]

He needs to hire a DP and use Section 3412 from the IBC.3412.3 Acceptance.

For repairs, alterations, additions and changes of occupancy to existing buildings that are evaluated in accordance with this section, compliance with this section shall be accepted by the building official .

The Building Official will then have a document to follow that will insure a save structure for the intended use when completed.

That section does mostly life safety, and you will still be rsponsible for accessibility.......

Slightly different section in my 2003...

3410.2.5 Accessibility requirements.

All portions of the buildings proposed for change of occupancy shall conform to the accessibility provisions of Chapter 11.

 

[mark handler]

All portions of the buildings proposed for change of occupancy shall conform to the accessibility provisions of Chapter 11.

Depens on where he/she is.....

 

[Sifu]

He has met with zoning to tackle parking, which I didn't even get into but since it was brought up........he has none. He is trying to see if he can use a nearby existing parking lot (either privately owned or maybe city owned). If so would he also need to provide an accessible route all the way from that lot to the building? I hadn't even thought about a grease trap. He mentioned though I am not sure that this house is "historic". Could be another wrinkle. I was immediately concerned by the amount of money (or lack there-of) he said he had for the project which is why I started throwing these issues at him to begin with. I figure any up-front info can only help him.

 

[Msradell]

He definitely would have to provide an accessible route from the parking lot into the building. Depending on the parking lots layout additional handicapped parking spaces near the accessible route may also be required.

 

[Daddy-0-]

Friendly advice....be careful about giving friendly advice....especially if it is not your jurisdiction. It can cause a he said she said nightmare.