On ground pool barrier 20" set-back from water edge

[Mr. Inspector]

When they are putting a barrier on top of a on ground pool per 305.10 how to they make it also comply to 305.2.10 which is included under 305.2?

305.2.10 Poolside Barrier Setbacks
The pool or spa side of the required barrier shall be not less than 20 inches (508 mm) from the water's edge.

305.5 Onground Residential Pool Structure as a Barrier
An onground residential pool wall structure or a barrier mounted on top of an onground residential pool wall structure shall serve as a barrier where all of the following conditions are present:

1. Where only the pool wall serves as the barrier, the bottom of the wall is on grade, the top of the wall is not less than 48 inches (1219 mm) above grade for the entire perimeter of the pool, the wall complies with the requirements of Section 305.2 and the pool manufacturer allows the wall to serve as a barrier.
2. Where a barrier is mounted on top of the pool wall, the top of the barrier is not less than 48 inches (1219 mm) above grade for the entire perimeter of the pool, and the wall and the barrier on top of the wall comply with the requirements of Section 305.2.
3. Ladders or steps used as means of access to the pool are capable of being secured, locked or removed to prevent access except where the ladder or steps are surrounded by a barrier that meets the requirements of Section 305.
4. Openings created by the securing, locking or removal of ladders and steps do not allow the passage of a 4-inch (102 mm) diameter sphere.
Barriers that are mounted on top of onground residential pool walls are installed in accordance with the pool manufacturer's instructions.

 

[redeyedfly]

Looks like the barrier needs to be offset a minimum of 20" from the edge of the water. That is a very typical pool code requirement (often it is 36" or 48"). The intent is to allow someone to get out of the pool anywhere along the perimeter if they are in distress. Many pool codes allow for some percentage or max length of the wall to extend up to balance the desire for aesthetic features and safety.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Maybe by building a 20+ inch wide deck around the pool.

The short story is that "they" make it comply however they choose to make it comply. It's not the code official's job to design a compliant solution, only to verify that the solution presented complies with the code.

 

[ICE]

Does the requirement apply to the entire perimeter? What is the requirement for an in-ground pool?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Does the requirement apply to the entire perimeter? What is the requirement for an in-ground pool?

Clearance requirements are in section 305 of the ISPSC. Curiously, unless I missed something the code is mostly silent on the question of distance from the water's edge. It says 20" if the pool barrier is a "mesh fence" (other than chain link), but I don't see any minimum (or other) dimension for distance between the pool and the fence.

 

[ICE]

I have some information on mesh fences with regards to the equipotential bonding grid. As I recall, there are metal parts that require bonding to the grid so it is usually placed >5’ from the water’s edge. I’ll look for that tomorrow.

I was surprised when mesh fences were approved as a pool barrier. Mesh fences are also easy to remove and store in the overstuffed garage. I turned down first ten or so that I encountered. Then the County management started whining about the mesh fence having a listing… to which I said, “So what, it must be a mistake and a Listing is not an approval.” In the long run, the County managers got their way…. But I did put up a fight.

Ya know, it’s the same thing with the electric pool covers. I’ve seen less than half a dozen in thirty years.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I don't see anything about mesh fences in these sections above of the 2018 ISPSC.
I don't understand that the code says you can have a barrier on the on ground pool wall but it needs to be 20" away from the water edge. How can you do that? If it is 20" away from the water edge it would not be on the pool's wall.

 

[ICE]

Tomorrow is here and I found the information on mesh fences used as a pool barrier. The poles are metal and as such shall be bonded to the equipotential bonding grid per CEC 680.26(B)(7). I assume that the rest of the country has the same code section in the NEC as we have here in California.

There are two manufactures that I am aware of, Poolsafe and Guardian. Nearly identical. One of the companies (I don't remember which one) requires that the fence be installed by them and only them. In fact, they will not sell the fencing to anyone. I know this because I called the company to ask about a fence was installed too close to a pool without bonding the poles and the company owner was unaware of the project and quite upset that the fencing left the factory.

Here is a picture from the Poolsafe website. I don't see how the poles have been bonded. I sent an email asking how the poles are bonded. If I get an answer I'll let you know what they said.

 

[steveray]

Can you accept they effed up the 2018 ISPSC? That setback is only in there for mesh fences in the newer code...

 

[ICE]

Can you accept they effed up the 2018 ISPSC? That setback is only in there for mesh fences in the newer code...

A 20" setback doesn't provide much in the way of safety. ... Beyond that, encouraging mesh fences with less than a five foot separation from the wall of the pool without mentioning a bond to the equipotential bonding grid will lead to code violations that remain unabated.

In ground pools have raised bond beams, water falls, fancy architectural features with fake rocks, not to mention infinity pools, etc.

 

[steveray]

Moved

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Can you accept they effed up the 2018 ISPSC? That setback is only in there for mesh fences in the newer code...

No I won't because they are not allowed on top of the walls for a onground pool. Not talking about mesh fences or inground pools.

305.2.4 Mesh Fence as a Barrier
Mesh fences, other than chain link fences in accordance with Section 305.2.7, shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and shall comply with the following:
7. Mesh fences shall not be installed on top of onground residential pools.

 

[steveray]

Beyond that, encouraging mesh fences with less than a five foot separation from the wall of the pool without mentioning a bond to the equipotential bonding grid will lead to code violations that remain unabated.

No one ever said the people writing the code were smart....

 

[steveray]

No I won't because they are not allowed on top of the walls for a onground pool. Not talking about mesh fences or inground pools.

305.2.4 Mesh Fence as a Barrier
Mesh fences, other than chain link fences in accordance with Section 305.2.7, shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and shall comply with the following:
7. Mesh fences shall not be installed on top of onground residential pools.

What I was saying is I think they made a mistake and fixed it in the later codes....

 

[Mr. Inspector]

What I was saying is I think they made a mistake and fixed it in the later codes....

So, does anyone know how was it corrected in the 2021 ISPSC?

 

[steveray]

So, does anyone know how was it corrected in the 2021 ISPSC?

I already said that that setback is only supposed to apply to mesh fences:

305.2.4.1 Setback for Mesh Fences​

The inside of a mesh fence shall be not closer than 20 inches (508 mm) to the nearest edge of the water of a pool or spa.

 

[ICE]

If I get an answer I'll let you know what they said.

I just got off the phone with a person from Poolsafe, a mesh fence co. My question was about the location of the fence in relation to the wall of the pool. Their website shows a mesh fence with metal poles about a foot away from the pool with no bond to the equipotential bonding grid.



I impersonated a customer in my first email inquiry, so this guy believed that. I was told that the code does not require bonding with an existing pool... I told him that he was mistaken. He disagreed and I then informed him that I am an inspector and I have a Los Angeles County Research Section bulletin on Poolsafe mesh fence that backs me up. I offered to provide him a copy.

He then stated that... Yes he has a copy of LA City and LA County bulletins that would require the bond but… they work in many jurisdictions that do not require that so there is nothing wrong with the picture at the website.

He was curious as to why I led him the think that I was a customer. I told him that I do that because so often if the company knows that I am an inspector, they ignore me.

In this case he gave a half truth to start then he went to a three-quarters truth with, "The fence is portable like lawn furniture. I asked him about the non-conductive screw. I wondered out loud if his patio furniture is screwed down. Then I silently thought, "Well he might live in Florida." With these situations I prefer to know the answer before I ask the question.

Did we reach a whole untruth when he said that the "other" jusisdictions don't require bonding? I would prefer to think that the other jurisdictions just don't know any better.



LA CITY has this method as part of the bulletin:




The website states that the fence is LA City and LA County approved with a flagrant violation in a picture.

I told him that his product was mentioned at a building code forum so perhaps he will see this.

There’s a bit of irony in light of the name of the company....Poolsafe

The attachment is the LA County Research Bullitetin. Item #6 addresses the bonding.

 

[steveray]

That is not a "Tapcon"....And agree that someone needs to work on things that don't need to be bonded within 5', but in the meantime, the NEC says what it says...