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Opening in guards

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,674
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Large S-1 building has a exterior stairway coming from an office. The office is B but is less than 10% of the sq. ft of the building. So the whole building is S-1 and not open to the public. Can the guard have the larger 21" openings since it is a S-1 building or less than 4" openings because it is serving the office which is B?
 
It's a good question Rick!

More and more you see a warehouse with a business sales office near the dock doors with a set of stairs with guards at 21" that should be changed out to meet 1013.4 and the 4-inch sphere rule if the public is allowed.

Exception #4 for S-occupancy not open to the public. The UPS man is not the public IMO, but if the S-occupancy has a business office and is selling something like plumbing supplies, I'd say it would have to meet 1013.4, 4-inch rule if the stairs are over 30-inches off grade. A lot of loading dock stairs have the 21-inch spacing in the guard.

Don't see an exception for the B. At least that's the way I see it. But hey, I can't figure an occupant load for cuddle rooms.
 
I think that since it is an exterior stairway coming from an office, it would not meet exception #4 to IBC Section 1013.4 (2012) which would apply "within" the S-1 area. If the stairs were coming from the office to the S-1, the 21" opening would be ok. GPE
 
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At strip malls the store's usually have a storage room in the back. Even though the whole building is M I let them put in guards with 21" opening because the stairway is off of a "S" (storage room) with no public. But this is the opposite with the whole building S with the stairway off of a B area. It doesn't seem to be right to have it both ways.

Pinspector1: I won't call a UPS person public. Without a definition in the IBC the word public is not very plan. The same thing goes for a employee area. Almost everyone is a employee some where but may not be a employee of that company that has the building. The UPS person is a employee, so is the pizza delivery person, the water bottle delivery guy and the cable guy or even the hair dresser that is just dropping off something for their spouse. They all could be going into a employee work area. The code does not say they need to be an employee of the company that is there. What about the IT guy that works there full time as a contractor, is he an employee or a public person? This always drove me crazy.
 
My reference to the UPS guy is that he's a delivery person like a fright delivery person, different from the person that comes with little Johnnie to purchase plumbing parts. I guess anyone can take a child to a merchant or a place of work and drag them up a set of dock stairs.

Residential: The 4-inch rule on guards as I understand it is for little Johnnie but on stairs it's 4-3/8" for the stair industry to save money reducing spindles. So it sounds like this should be considered if the clientele is mixed use. I would not have a problem requiring the additional guard requirement if open to the public.

On the other hand whats the height from grade. Is over 30-inches?
 
1015.4 Opening limitations.
Exceptions:

4. In areas that are not open to the public within occupancies in Group I-3, F, H or S......

If the public can get to it, that's "open to the public". Furthermore, as GPE stated it is not "within" the S occupancy. For either reason it's 4".
 
ICE said:
1015.4 Opening limitations.
Exceptions:

4. In areas that are not open to the public within occupancies in Group I-3, F, H or S......

If the public can get to it, that's "open to the public". Furthermore, as GPE stated it is not "within" the S occupancy. For either reason it's 4".
Click to expand...
No public allowed where this stairway is. You must go through a security building to get through the fence that surrounds the building.

The stairway is not within any group it is an exterior stairway that serves an office that is in a S-1 building. So even though it is a S building does the guard need to have the less than 4- 3/8" openings because it serves as part of the exit for the office which is a "B" accessory to the S building?
 
Just to be disagreeable (and maybe add to the discussion), I'd vote no on requiring 4" openings. If the building is an S, and especially since it is behind a security barrier/fence, I'd say your stairs fall within exception 4 (1015.4, 2015 IBC) no matter what door they lead to within the S building.

From the Commentary: "Exceptions 3 and 4 address areas where the presence of small children is unlikely and often prohibited. Guards along walkways leading to electrical, mechanical and plumbing systems or equipment and in occupancies in Groups I-3, F, H, and S may be constructed in such a way that a sphere 21 inches in diameter will not pass through any of the openings."

How high are these stairs? I'm not sure that'd effect my opinion either, but this call may be a lot easier for some to make if this is a flight of 3 or 4 steps vs. a flight of 10 or 12.. And also, like pcinsp said - if you're less than 30" total then you don't have to provide anything.
 
OK, I'll play. If this were an interior stairway that only employees could access, the 21" would be fine. Exterior, now that is accessible to the public, invited or not. I would require the 4 3/8" openings.
 
No public allowed where this stairway is. You must go through a security building to get through the fence that surrounds the building.

Well, I missed that.

I would allow the 21" openings.
 
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