Outdoor air in a sauna?

[Sifu]

I have a type of exercise facility in which there are 7 large saunas. The saunas house a variety of exercise equipment so people can be really hot while they work out. Typical OA calc's for a gym are simple. What about these? I have never cared much about a single little sauna in a gym where people wind down. But as an actual place where people are engaged in exercise, I wonder how the OA is provided. Anyone encountered these?

(No mention on the plans for where the AED's are!)

 

[steveray]

I would think heat gain should be accounted for in the load calcs...

312.1​

Heating and cooling system design loads for the purpose of sizing systems, appliances and equipment shall be determined in accordance with the procedures described in the ASHRAE/ACCA Standard 183. Alternatively, design loads shall be determined by an approved equivalent computation procedure, using the design parameters specified in Chapter 3 [CE] of the International Energy Conservation Code.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

So people are exercising inside these saunas, rather than just sitting on benches as in every sauna I've ever seen? How big are these sauna chambers?

Irrespective of heat and/or air conditioning, the mechanical code requires a minimum quantity of fresh, outdoor air to be delivered to each occupied room or space, based on the area and volume of the space and the occupant load of the space. If the plans don't clearly show how that's being accomplished, I would reject them and ask for more information.

 

[Sifu]

8 prefab infrared saunas, about 64sf² each. It is the majority of the workout space, which is their schtick....sweat more. No ventilation inside the saunas at all. Like I said, if someone sits on a bench in a small sauna, like every one I have ever seen, then I don't care. In this case, it is the core of their occupancy. I did a "hot yoga" studio several years ago, but they had ventilation.

I'm gonna ask them how people breath. I assume the units have some mechanism for that, but they haven't decided to share it up to this point. My guess is they have some internal way of tempering the outside air so they can accomplish their goa.

 

[Sifu]

IMC 914.5 does have a ventilation opening requirement, but I am having trouble reconciling what I think they intend for a sauna (as I think of them), with a space intended for actual human activity.

914.5 Sauna room. A ventilation opening into the sauna
room shall be provided. The opening shall be not less than 4
inches by 8 inches (102 mm by 203 mm) located near the top
of the door into the sauna room.

 

[steveray]

8 prefab infrared saunas, about 64sf² each. It is the majority of the workout space, which is their schtick....sweat more.

Now I understand better....We don't really regulate the max temp, but the ventilation you are on the right track and more Ch. 4 IMC for exercise spaces?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

8 prefab infrared saunas, about 64sf² each. It is the majority of the workout space, which is their schtick....sweat more. No ventilation inside the saunas at all. Like I said, if someone sits on a bench in a small sauna, like every one I have ever seen, then I don't care. In this case, it is the core of their occupancy. I did a "hot yoga" studio several years ago, but they had ventilation.

Everybody has their schtick.

 

[US101]

I have a type of exercise facility in which there are 7 large saunas. The saunas house a variety of exercise equipment so people can be really hot while they work out. Typical OA calc's for a gym are simple. What about these? I have never cared much about a single little sauna in a gym where people wind down. But as an actual place where people are engaged in exercise, I wonder how the OA is provided. Anyone encountered these?

(No mention on the plans for where the AED's are!)

Just had one of these. Lost some sleep. It took a month. 2021 IMC 403.3.1.1 requires outside air to be delivered to each occupiable space to the breathing zone -(The region within an occupied space between planes 3 and 72 inches above the floor and more than 2 feet from the walls of the space.) 20 CFM per person Table 403.3.1.1. The T.I. space is 1500 square feet with 7 sauna units. Building occupancy for exiting is 35. The D.O.A.S. (dedicated outdoor air system) can run only about 475CFM so we are limiting the occupancy to 21 based on ventilation. We negotiated to limit the occupancy in each sauna to two people. The videos show a max of 3 people working out for 30 minutes. The door to the sauna has a .7” gap around it with the fresh air vents directed downward towards it with an exhaust fan mounted on the 6” x 8” top opening running about 60 CFM continuously. The exhaust fans will be flow tested at final per the stamped engineered mechanical plans. Sauna specs from Intertek include details for infrared ceramic heating elements and specifies an upper and lower opening of 19 square inches. No mention of the 6” x 8” top opening in the 34 page document. Had to ask for this and also the submittal did not initially come with mechanical plans or any exhaust fans on the units. The Fire Code Specialist is requiring each unit to have a sprinkler head dropped in. This business has about 16 locations in my state (Washington) and of course I wonder what if any of these ventilation requirements were implemented, - as the response to all this is the classic “ no one has ever made us do this before” they have over 700 locations nationally.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

This business has about 16 locations in my state (Washington) and of course I wonder what if any of these ventilation requirements were implemented, - as the response to all this is the classic “ no one has ever made us do this before” they have over 700 locations nationally.

That was essentially the response we received a couple of years ago when a massage studio wanted to install a flotation tank. The is basically a clamshell with several inches of very salty water in the bottom half, mood lighting, relaxing audio, etc. The salt water is so saline that the occupant basically feels weightless. The upper part of the clamshell is closed and all exterior noise and light are excluded.

The company that makes and sells these tanks puts out literature claiming that the tanks meet all building code and ADA requirements. When we started asking for specifics of how they met various code provisions, the answer basically was, "Well, we say they do, so they do." I felt sorry for the poor girl who bought the thing. It was finally approved and installed, but the process took six or eight months longer than she had anticipated and she was paying rent on a space that wasn't generating any income for that entire period.

 

[steveray]

Just had one of these. Lost some sleep. It took a month. 2021 IMC 403.3.1.1 requires outside air to be delivered to each occupiable space to the breathing zone -(The region within an occupied space between planes 3 and 72 inches above the floor and more than 2 feet from the walls of the space.) 20 CFM per person Table 403.3.1.1. The T.I. space is 1500 square feet with 7 sauna units. Building occupancy for exiting is 35. The D.O.A.S. (dedicated outdoor air system) can run only about 475CFM so we are limiting the occupancy to 21 based on ventilation. We negotiated to limit the occupancy in each sauna to two people. The videos show a max of 3 people working out for 30 minutes. The door to the sauna has a .7” gap around it with the fresh air vents directed downward towards it with an exhaust fan mounted on the 6” x 8” top opening running about 60 CFM continuously. The exhaust fans will be flow tested at final per the stamped engineered mechanical plans. Sauna specs from Intertek include details for infrared ceramic heating elements and specifies an upper and lower opening of 19 square inches. No mention of the 6” x 8” top opening in the 34 page document. Had to ask for this and also the submittal did not initially come with mechanical plans or any exhaust fans on the units. The Fire Code Specialist is requiring each unit to have a sprinkler head dropped in. This business has about 16 locations in my state (Washington) and of course I wonder what if any of these ventilation requirements were implemented, - as the response to all this is the classic “ no one has ever made us do this before” they have over 700 locations nationally.

Great First post!...Welcome to THE forum!

 

[Sifu]

Just had one of these. Lost some sleep. It took a month. 2021 IMC 403.3.1.1 requires outside air to be delivered to each occupiable space to the breathing zone -(The region within an occupied space between planes 3 and 72 inches above the floor and more than 2 feet from the walls of the space.) 20 CFM per person Table 403.3.1.1. The T.I. space is 1500 square feet with 7 sauna units. Building occupancy for exiting is 35. The D.O.A.S. (dedicated outdoor air system) can run only about 475CFM so we are limiting the occupancy to 21 based on ventilation. We negotiated to limit the occupancy in each sauna to two people. The videos show a max of 3 people working out for 30 minutes. The door to the sauna has a .7” gap around it with the fresh air vents directed downward towards it with an exhaust fan mounted on the 6” x 8” top opening running about 60 CFM continuously. The exhaust fans will be flow tested at final per the stamped engineered mechanical plans. Sauna specs from Intertek include details for infrared ceramic heating elements and specifies an upper and lower opening of 19 square inches. No mention of the 6” x 8” top opening in the 34 page document. Had to ask for this and also the submittal did not initially come with mechanical plans or any exhaust fans on the units. The Fire Code Specialist is requiring each unit to have a sprinkler head dropped in. This business has about 16 locations in my state (Washington) and of course I wonder what if any of these ventilation requirements were implemented, - as the response to all this is the classic “ no one has ever made us do this before” they have over 700 locations nationally.

Thanks for the info. On the single "normal" saunas I have seen the specs usually incorporate the ventilation in a similar manor to the IMC, but I am hoping they can demonstrate the ventilation required for the specific use such as you describe. The 8x4 fresh air vent above the door in the IMC likely never imagined this scenario and seems wholly inadequate for this use. The ventilation you describe makes much more sense and I could easily be convinced its enough for the masochists using the saunas.