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Outdoor hedges - Code forcing cutting

A

Annoyed_PA_Guy

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Nov 28, 2018
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Pennsylvania
I'm hoping I posted this in the right spot but I'm looking for some info. Here is the overview:

In 2013 I purchased a home with hedges surrounding 3-sides of my property (I live on a corner). The hedges at the time were about 4.5 - 5' tall. This past year I wanted to put a privacy fence up but the local code is 3' tall since both sides of my yard are considered "Front lawns".

I opted to let my hedges grow up a bit to increase the privacy. Today I had code show up (Someone complaining) stating that these hedges needed to be 3' tall and not obstructing the road and supposed to be 10' away from the road. Right now they're maybe 3-5' off the road.

They said that it wasn't an issue being closer to the road but I'd like to know if they can enforce this due to the hedges being up prior to whatever changed on the code. I'm okay with possibly cutting them down a little but there's no way I'm taking them down to 3' considering they were almost 2' higher 5 years ago when I bought the property.

No timeframe was given to have them cut just "It needs done as quick as I can" otherwise I could be fined $100/day.

More info:

I few weeks ago I had complained to code after a neighbor had cut some ditches to handle water overflow that pointed directly down the hill towards my home. I wanted it fixed properly and had got the township involved who basically did nothing. Couldn't get them up to look at it, couldn't get them to show up and couldn't get a callback after a few exchanges.

So, I'm thinking either the neighbor contacted code on my hedges or the township directly is being a bit vindictive after not doing anything to resolve the prior issue with the ditches.
 
Zoning codes, site triangle issue for motorist, which you are one I suspect.

Maybe an HOA issue also.
 
Most communities zoning (land use) or property maintenance codes do regulate the corner lots from the principal of a sight triangle. The 3' height is eyesight from a person in a vehicle. So if you were in my area you would only have to cut/trim just the portion that is in the sight triangle. Call the code people and get them to explain the dimensions they use. The sight triangle vary based upon the classification of the intersecting roadways. Sight triangles for local roads are usually the smallest, Good Luck
 
Blind corners are the worst. I worked in an area where the foliage was not regulated and it was scary. The roads were narrow and I couldn't see what was coming. Be a good citizen and trim the hedges low enough that people can see far enough to be safe.
 
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As detailed by others, this is regulated by Code Enforcement, who is enforcing a section from the local municipal code (typically a planning or right-of-way requirement). These regulations are invoked to ensure that corner lots do not construct or plant obstructions to the sight triangle. The 3-ft height is the commonly assumed eye level of a person in a sedan type vehicle. Get with Code Enforcement to determine just the portion that is in the sight triangle and get it trimmed.

As for it being existing when you bought the home, will not matter. A standing non-conformance is not justification to permit continued non-conformance.

And I think this is a case of tit-for-tat and reaping-what-you-sow. Whomever you reported most likely reported you as an act of petty revenge. I will bet a coffee as well that it is not the township being vindictive; they don't have a cart in the race.
 
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Neighbors, neighbors, neighbors, yeesh! A good home inspector should have noted this prior to sale.
Corners are often the worse offenders. Trim your bushes.
 
Annoyed_PA_Guy said:
I'm hoping I posted this in the right spot but I'm looking for some info. Here is the overview:

In 2013 I purchased a home with hedges surrounding 3-sides of my property (I live on a corner). The hedges at the time were about 4.5 - 5' tall. This past year I wanted to put a privacy fence up but the local code is 3' tall since both sides of my yard are considered "Front lawns".

I opted to let my hedges grow up a bit to increase the privacy. Today I had code show up (Someone complaining) stating that these hedges needed to be 3' tall and not obstructing the road and supposed to be 10' away from the road. Right now they're maybe 3-5' off the road.

They said that it wasn't an issue being closer to the road but I'd like to know if they can enforce this due to the hedges being up prior to whatever changed on the code. I'm okay with possibly cutting them down a little but there's no way I'm taking them down to 3' considering they were almost 2' higher 5 years ago when I bought the property.

No timeframe was given to have them cut just "It needs done as quick as I can" otherwise I could be fined $100/day.

More info:

I few weeks ago I had complained to code after a neighbor had cut some ditches to handle water overflow that pointed directly down the hill towards my home. I wanted it fixed properly and had got the township involved who basically did nothing. Couldn't get them up to look at it, couldn't get them to show up and couldn't get a callback after a few exchanges.

So, I'm thinking either the neighbor contacted code on my hedges or the township directly is being a bit vindictive after not doing anything to resolve the prior issue with the ditches.
Click to expand...


Ask the code police that you would like to see the ordinance in writing, even if you have to go to city hall to get it

This way you know what it says

And see if it applies to you

And to see what the minimum requirement is
 
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Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. I think I might contact a lawyer tomorrow morning just to get their input as well. Just a few things on some of the posts:

1.) When you get up to the physical stop sign you can easily see down the road. If anything the issue here is people that want to see down the road prior to getting to the end of it so they can blow through the stop sign.

2.) I agree it's likely tit for tat and if that's the case I have an ace up my sleeve for this spring.

@ Jar546 - Yes, it's a side road that comes to an intersection and I'm on the left side. There is no house on the right side and the road you turn onto is also a side road with a 35mph posted speed and 1 lane each way.

I can't find anything on the free sight triangle but did have a chance to find the copy of the city ordinance. It says the following:

A wall or fence under six ( 6 ) feet in height and paved

terraces without walls, roofs or other enclosures may be

erected within the limits of any yard. Retaining walls and

fences required for screening under this Ordinance are not

subject to the six (6) foot high limitation. Fences may be

permitted in front yard areas provided they are no higher than

three (3) feet and do not impinge on the required free sight

triangle at intersections.

If I'm reading this all correct it doesn't say anything regarding "Hedge regulation". That's why I'm thinking of contacting a lawyer to see if how it's wrote would save me or not. If push comes to shove if I'm understanding everyone from earlier I'd just have to verify what the free sight requirement is, cut that section down to 3' and basically plant new hedges across inside the triangle?

Thanks again for all the feedback, I just hate the fact this has been a non-issue for 5 years and just magically becomes an issue after I contacted the on another issue.
 
Annoyed_PA_Guy said:
Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. I think I might contact a lawyer tomorrow morning just to get their input as well. Just a few things on some of the posts:

1.) When you get up to the physical stop sign you can easily see down the road. If anything the issue here is people that want to see down the road prior to getting to the end of it so they can blow through the stop sign.

2.) I agree it's likely tit for tat and if that's the case I have an ace up my sleeve for this spring.

@ Jar546 - Yes, it's a side road that comes to an intersection and I'm on the left side. There is no house on the right side and the road you turn onto is also a side road with a 35mph posted speed and 1 lane each way.

I can't find anything on the free sight triangle but did have a chance to find the copy of the city ordinance. It says the following:

A wall or fence under six ( 6 ) feet in height and paved

terraces without walls, roofs or other enclosures may be

erected within the limits of any yard. Retaining walls and

fences required for screening under this Ordinance are not

subject to the six (6) foot high limitation. Fences may be

permitted in front yard areas provided they are no higher than

three (3) feet and do not impinge on the required free sight

triangle at intersections.

If I'm reading this all correct it doesn't say anything regarding "Hedge regulation". That's why I'm thinking of contacting a lawyer to see if how it's wrote would save me or not. If push comes to shove if I'm understanding everyone from earlier I'd just have to verify what the free sight requirement is, cut that section down to 3' and basically plant new hedges across inside the triangle?

Thanks again for all the feedback, I just hate the fact this has been a non-issue for 5 years and just magically becomes an issue after I contacted the on another issue.
Click to expand...



Some of these items might be defined by the city,, by ordinance

The fences front yard, no higher three feet,, plus not impinge on triangle

More than likely applies to you
 
Annoyed_PA_Guy said:
Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. I think I might contact a lawyer tomorrow morning just to get their input as well. Just a few things on some of the posts:

1.) When you get up to the physical stop sign you can easily see down the road. If anything the issue here is people that want to see down the road prior to getting to the end of it so they can blow through the stop sign.

2.) I agree it's likely tit for tat and if that's the case I have an ace up my sleeve for this spring.

@ Jar546 - Yes, it's a side road that comes to an intersection and I'm on the left side. There is no house on the right side and the road you turn onto is also a side road with a 35mph posted speed and 1 lane each way.

I can't find anything on the free sight triangle but did have a chance to find the copy of the city ordinance. It says the following:

A wall or fence under six ( 6 ) feet in height and paved

terraces without walls, roofs or other enclosures may be

erected within the limits of any yard. Retaining walls and

fences required for screening under this Ordinance are not

subject to the six (6) foot high limitation. Fences may be

permitted in front yard areas provided they are no higher than

three (3) feet and do not impinge on the required free sight

triangle at intersections.

If I'm reading this all correct it doesn't say anything regarding "Hedge regulation". That's why I'm thinking of contacting a lawyer to see if how it's wrote would save me or not. If push comes to shove if I'm understanding everyone from earlier I'd just have to verify what the free sight requirement is, cut that section down to 3' and basically plant new hedges across inside the triangle?

Thanks again for all the feedback, I just hate the fact this has been a non-issue for 5 years and just magically becomes an issue after I contacted the on another issue.
Click to expand...
Keep pushing the Township and they will push back. What most fail to understand is as soon as you accuse a government agency of "not being fair" they go to the letter of the law and everything becomes black or white. Most agencies (really, the inspectors/officers) will use judgement and understanding...but if you bring a lawyer in, all that latitude goes away and they are forced to do exactly what the legislation/ordinance says.

Cut the hedges, or get yourself ready to have fines due. At a $100 per day, the fees will add up quick.
 
It is doubtful that the AHJ will escalate enforcement because the recalcitrant owner hires a lawyer. What good would come from hiring a lawyer? The hedges are too tall..... end of story.
 
We have it in our ordinance(so code enforcement can enforce), it is also in the State traffic code which can be enforced by the PD, that the only thing allowed in the sight triangle over 3' are traffic control items. Hedges, bushes, trees, branches hanging down, Halloween decorations, etc.....
cut them in the sight triangle, and replant or install screen or fence outside of it by getting proper permits if required in your city.
 
Last edited:
I had not heard of a sight triangle ordinance/law prior to this thread.
 
ICE said:
I had not heard of a sight triangle ordinance/law prior to this thread.
Click to expand...

Me either, but I'm not surprised such crap exists.

Our ordinance says fences have to be 4' or lower on a street-facing side, and that trees, shrubs, or any other plant growth cannot encroach on the public way nor reduce visibility at intersections. Since I'm the lucky guy that gets to enforce it, whether or not it's reducing visibility is up to me.
 
Too many times do I see stop signs obstructed by street trees and side walks with the bottom of adjacent tree crowns less than 80" (ADA maintenance requirement)
 
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