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Party Barn

phillier937

phillier937

SAWHORSE
Joined
Jul 28, 2022
Messages
41
Location
Ohio
I have a 10 acre residential property that submitted what looks like a party barn, and they throw a lot of big parties, but labeled it as a detached storage under the residential code. It is 50x50 with a bathroom, loft (labeled mezzanine) otherwise it looks like a barn. Having it residential property doesn't immediately make it a detached (accessory) structure? It looks and feels like at least a U, which lists barns, under the IBC or probably an assembly use if they are having social events in there. I'm asking the owner to provide a clarification on how it will used for the record.

Would you let this remain an R accessory or ask them to resubmit as a commercial project?
 
are the events friend's of the properly owner or paying functions or weddings, do they advertise the use of the barn on the WWW?
 
Well its not built yet. I believe just going to be the homeowner and friends to hang out after watching THE university marching band when he invites them over.
 
If the use is residential, and the scope is residential, then it is residential...until it isn't. I would require the function and intent be documented on the plans, permit application and C of O. That way when they do violate those terms the AHJ has a solid footing to stand on and the operator can never (reasonably) claim they didn't know they couldn't have a wedding venue, or when disaster strikes, there is solid documentation that they violated the contract documents. There also may be a way to tie the address to business licenses or liquor licenses. Just depends how intertwined these functions are. I would make sure they are on record for the function, make make sure you cross the t's and dot the I's, and accept their stated purpose. Outside of that I don't operate on what I think they could do, only what they say they will do. I keep detailed notes, all correspondence, and summaries of all conversations. I try to back up conversations with email summaries for all parties. I do this for almost every permit, even when not suspect, but especially so for the ones where they are suspect.
 
Sifu said:
If the use is residential, and the scope is residential, then it is residential...until it isn't. I would require the function and intent be documented on the plans, permit application and C of O. That way when they do violate those terms the AHJ has a solid footing to stand on and the operator can never (reasonably) claim they didn't know they couldn't have a wedding venue, or when disaster strikes, there is solid documentation that they violated the contract documents. There also may be a way to tie the address to business licenses or liquor licenses. Just depends how intertwined these functions are. I would make sure they are on record for the function, make make sure you cross the t's and dot the I's, and accept their stated purpose. Outside of that I don't operate on what I think they could do, only what they say they will do. I keep detailed notes, all correspondence, and summaries of all conversations. I try to back up conversations with email summaries for all parties. I do this for almost every permit, even when not suspect, but especially so for the ones where they are suspect.
Click to expand...
This is a good answer and the way I would proceed.
 
Agree with Sifu. Also worth noting that almost every single family residence or garage might occasionally get used for assembly uses: birthday parties, wedding and funeral receptions, and pretty much every high school movie where the parents are gone for the weekend. But we don’t plan check for those unless the plans explicitly say so.

If it turns out they are building the pole barn with the intent of renting it our as a party barn, as has been known to occur in California wine country, then here’s how it gets enforced out here:

1. The local zoning code limits the number of non-family events that can occur on agriculturally zoned land.
2. The city has a handout distributed at the planning counter that reminds people of these limitations.
3. Plans and permits identify the specific allowed use, similar to what Sifu stated.
4. When code enforcement suspects that a barn is being rented, they require the owner to obtain a business license.
5. The business license triggers a zoning and building code review, comparing the business use to the approved permits on file.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
An old lumber yard building that was in the city and they relocated 2/3 of it into the county. The engineer that was working with us on the code requirements for an assembly use thinking they would need to annex into the city to get water and sewer. Long story short the health department allowed a septic system and well. The state approved a permit for a "M" occupancy and therefore no fire suppression system required and not enough plumbing fixtures.
Here is what it is being used as.
www.snowlineacres.com

Home - Snowline Acres

Snowline Acres offers seasonal markets and family friendly events for the community to create seasonal traditions. The Ashley Creek Historic Venue which is on Snowline Acres property is a restored lumber building that can be rented out for weddings, fundraisers, and other private events.
www.snowlineacres.com www.snowlineacres.com
 
A "barn" that size properly will exceed the prescriptive requirements for construction in the IRC and therefore would require an engineer for the structure.
 
Our jurisdiction had an interesting situation where a residential house was being used as the site for a swinger's ... club/group. No issue there until they started charging money for weekend ... festivities .... which made it commercial of sorts.

The boss asked me what I'd consider it. Shoulda seen the look in his face when I honestly declared "business and personal services.... more personal services."
 
phillier937 said:
loft (labeled mezzanine)
Click to expand...
Indicates the building will have walls exceeding 10 feet in height.

Maximum stud height allowed.
TABLE R602.3(5)
SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING OF WOOD STUDSa

TABLE R602.3(6)
ALTERNATE WOOD BEARING WALL STUD SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING

Post and Beam Construction (Pole Barn)
 
mtlogcabin said:
Indicates the building will have walls exceeding 10 feet in height.

Maximum stud height allowed.
TABLE R602.3(5)
SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING OF WOOD STUDSa

TABLE R602.3(6)
ALTERNATE WOOD BEARING WALL STUD SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING

Post and Beam Construction (Pole Barn)
Click to expand...
FWIW...I also believe there used to be a 3,000sf² limitation on accessory structures (though maybe an ag bilking was exempt), which went away many years ago, but maybe not before the original structure was built.
 
You are correct.
2012 IRC
ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) in floor area, and not over two stories in height, the use of which is customarily accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and which is located on the same lot.
 
mtlogcabin said:
You are correct.
2012 IRC
ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) in floor area, and not over two stories in height, the use of which is customarily accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and which is located on the same lot.
Click to expand...
Is the definition the only place the 3000 SF shows up? Kind of runs counter to the concept of no requirements in definitions.

Discussion of "wedding barns" has come up in NFPA assembly occupancies committee meetings. No different than a banquet hall.
 
mtlogcabin said:
You are correct.
2012 IRC
ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) in floor area, and not over two stories in height, the use of which is customarily accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and which is located on the same lot.
Click to expand...
thank you I was looking for that the other day in current code for a project and could not find it
 
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