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PERGOLA

VLADIMIR LEVIN

Registered User
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
113
Location
NY
(RCNYS 2020)
Is a detached pergola regulated by the residential code?
I need to make a case to the building inspector that it isn't.
Res. code says "Accessory Structures" are, but the definition of structure is so general.
Anyone have any insight(s)?
 
I would say yes. Under a certain size no permit is required, which does not excuse you from code compliance, but things happen with no plan review and no inspection. 200 sf iirc in the IRC. Where I live it is amended to 144 sf. And I do need a zoning permit.
 
Where I live it is amended to 144 sf.
In NY its also under 144 sf , but it specifically says "gross floor area".
Technically, a pergola does not have any gross floor area because it does not have any exterior walls (building code definition).
I'm playing lawyer here but I need to convince the Building Official.
 
If it was less than 200 SF I might consider it a detached one story accessory structure and exempt it form a building permit,however subject to zoning review. Larger than 200 SF yes it needs a permit

2015 IRC

ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure that is accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and that is located on the same lot.

BUILDING. Building shall mean any one- and two family dwelling or portion thereof, including townhouses, that is used, or designed or intended to be used for human habitation, for living, sleeping, cooking or eating purposes, or any combination thereof, and shall include accessory structures thereto.

STRUCTURE. That which is built or constructed.

Structure was purposely defined broadly, to allow for all the things in the built environment that could fall down, fall over, blow away, drowned or generally case harm to humans.

Section 105.1 grants exceptions to structures deemed acceptable to not needing a permit, "Exemption from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction."
 
In NY its also under 144 sf , but it specifically says "gross floor area".
Technically, a pergola does not have any gross floor area because it does not have any exterior walls (building code definition).
I'm playing lawyer here but I need to convince the Building Official.
we're both in NY. Doh. :)
The Commish makes the point. Earthen floor houses - common in adobe buildings - don't get by either with no floor area. 12 x 12 is not small. Build 2 next to each other and don't connect them. :)
 
In NY its also under 144 sf , but it specifically says "gross floor area".
Technically, a pergola does not have any gross floor area because it does not have any exterior walls (building code definition).
I'm playing lawyer here but I need to convince the Building Official.
Vlad,

Not sure what the problem is, if it is under 144 sqft no permit, if over permit required.

The area underneath the unit is the amount of area it takes up and ergo, the sqft number that applies.

If you don't want to pull a building permit, put up (2) 10 x 10 units separated by a few feet side by side.

I have drawn many pergola designs for fabricators, all have been considered structures all required permits.

But my question is this, the cost of a permit is minimum on a project like this,

Probably cost more to take the family out to dinner for the night.

All they are going to do is provide you with a verification it was done correctly, is it your intent not to put up a safe structure?
 
Not sure what the problem is, if it is under 144 sqft no permit, if over permit required.
Issue is not getting a permit itself, but that they issued a permit and upon final inspection declared that it was in the setback and needs to come down!
I'm looking for ammo for when I speak with the Building Official; possibly trying to get it removed from the permit.
 
Zoning is totally separate from Building Code.

Exemption from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction."

Zoning Bylaws are local and sometimes are dependent what side of the street or where the zone ends side in a left to right side of a property.

Take your lumps and move it.
 
You asked about residential code and building inspector. This is purely zoning and the zoning officer. May all look the same - one person does all here for 2 villages and 2 towns - but entirely different. Building comes down to science. Zoning is purely local politics. Condolences but probably has to move. Try being real nice and humble and apply for a variance but this seems too late. How far into set back is it? Around here if no one objects 50% is often granted.
 
Issue is not getting a permit itself, but that they issued a permit and upon final inspection declared that it was in the setback and needs to come down!
I'm looking for ammo for when I speak with the Building Official; possibly trying to get it removed from the permit.
While I might be off base, I will assume that there is an approved site plan and an inspection for a footing took place. Now the structure is completed and there is a setback problem.

If there is an approved site plan that shows the structure where it is now, well then there is no setback problem....at least not your problem. Next in line is the approved footing inspection. Okay, I get that an AHJ is allowed to make a mistake and the injured party doesn't necessarily get a pass due to an innocent error, however there is a compounding factor here. That should come into play and depending on the extent of the supposed setback violation the AHJ should pick up what's left of their marbles and depart the scene of the crime.

I said depending on the extent of the setback violation because there comes a point when you should have known better.
 
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While I might be off base, I will assume that there is an approved site plan and an inspection for a footing took place. Now the structure is completed and there is a setback problem.

If there is an approved site plan that shows the structure where it is now, well then there is no setback problem....at least not your problem. Next in line is the approved footing inspection. Okay, I get that an AHJ is allowed to make a mistake and the injured party doesn't necessarily get a pass due to an innocent error, however there is a compounding factor here. That should come into play and depending on the extent of the supposed setback violation the AHJ should pick up what's left of their marbles and depart the scene of the crime.
This is exactly what I was wondering, what do the approved plans show?
 
Issue is not getting a permit itself, but that they issued a permit and upon final inspection declared that it was in the setback and needs to come down!
I'm looking for ammo for when I speak with the Building Official; possibly trying to get it removed from the permit.
Vlad,

As noted by many here already, you are looking in the wrong direction.

In many places, and I will take a chance since NYS is one of those places that likes to poke their nose in everyone's business. Location on the property is regulated by the zoning department, you might have submitted it to the building department, but it is in zonings hands.

Additionally, even if you were per say not required to submit for a building permit because of its size, it would still be subject to zoning as a structure on the property. Hence location, location, location.

you are currently searching for a loophole that does not exist from where I am sitting. You see the fact that whomever, you or if you hired someone else, built or assembled the pergola in the wrong place, simply did not follow the plan you submitted.

There is an old saying, not sure who said it first, but when you are in a hole, stop digging.

There is another old saying, education costs money, and it does not mean you necessarily pay a university, college or trade school to obtain that education.

And yes I should have 5 PHD's and a few other credentials to add to my high school diploma, none of which came with an .edu email address....
 
I never asked a zoning question. Look at my initial post...
Re-read your response to my 1st post, the minute you noted it failed for being in the setback, that is location, not the quality of the construction, hence zoning.

Just because you didn't type the word, does not mean you didn't take the discussion there.

zoning applies to everything, permit or no permit when it comes to setbacks.
 
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