-
Welcome to The Building Code Forum
Your premier resource for building code knowledge.
This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.
Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.
Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.
Plastic pipe article
- Thread starter cda
- Start date
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
Pretty interesting. I don't get the part that cpvc does not contribute to flash over! I need some more detail on that claim!
Pretty interesting. I don't get the part that cpvc does not contribute to flash over! I need some more detail on that claim!
Re: Plastic pipe article
When CPVC is exposed to a flame, it will simply char. This char layer then becomes a thermal barrier, which restricts the flow of heat into the pipe and reduces the rate of burning. PEX, on the other hand, is highly flammable and will continue to burn even after an external flame has been removed.
Tests additionally show that CPVC pipe does not contribute to flashover, which is the sudden, explosive development of a flame front.
Some reason in the book it shows a picture of the pipe exterior charred, like that intermessent stuff.
When CPVC is exposed to a flame, it will simply char. This char layer then becomes a thermal barrier, which restricts the flow of heat into the pipe and reduces the rate of burning. PEX, on the other hand, is highly flammable and will continue to burn even after an external flame has been removed.
Tests additionally show that CPVC pipe does not contribute to flashover, which is the sudden, explosive development of a flame front.
Some reason in the book it shows a picture of the pipe exterior charred, like that intermessent stuff.
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
cda: I learned something new with that comment! In the back of my one brain cell I new that, just wasn't applying it.
cda: I learned something new with that comment! In the back of my one brain cell I new that, just wasn't applying it.
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
cda: Thanks for the other link. Also the refresher on the need to read Plumbing engineer once in a while. I had not look at that for some time. Contains some good stuff.
And no fishing didn't get in the way! Just that office phone and the public which are a continuous distraction during the course of the day. Wouldn't life be grand if we didn't have to deal with such things during the work day! :lol:
cda: Thanks for the other link. Also the refresher on the need to read Plumbing engineer once in a while. I had not look at that for some time. Contains some good stuff.
And no fishing didn't get in the way! Just that office phone and the public which are a continuous distraction during the course of the day. Wouldn't life be grand if we didn't have to deal with such things during the work day! :lol:
Re: Plastic pipe article
CDA,
The "ADVERTISEMENT" for BlazeMaster Fire Sprinkler Systems (every page is an advertisement from some company); suggests that CPVC doesn't burn. IT DOES BURN.
It also suggests that instead of burning "through" the pipe; the heat source produces a char coating over the pipe. That is not a protective char coating; it is burned pipe. They "very carefully" scourched the pipe in the picture, to produce a false assumtion.
You can do the same thing with PVC pipe; as evident at framing inspections where plumbers scourch PVC DWV pipe when soldering copper.
As far as flashover is concerned; I would think that flashover in a room occurs long before the fire reaches any piping systems.
The author totally dismisses metal piping; making the assumption that it is not tested; but, instead "grandfathered"; which is a ridiculous statement. He dismisses metal pipe because it is superior.
The article is totally biased; even comparing CPVC to nylon, wood, and cotton; none of which are used to produce water pipe.
What he is really doing is comparing two of the "cheapest" alternatives; as apposed to using reliable piping systems (metal pipe).
Good Morning Ya'll,
Uncle Bob
CDA,
The "ADVERTISEMENT" for BlazeMaster Fire Sprinkler Systems (every page is an advertisement from some company); suggests that CPVC doesn't burn. IT DOES BURN.
It also suggests that instead of burning "through" the pipe; the heat source produces a char coating over the pipe. That is not a protective char coating; it is burned pipe. They "very carefully" scourched the pipe in the picture, to produce a false assumtion.
You can do the same thing with PVC pipe; as evident at framing inspections where plumbers scourch PVC DWV pipe when soldering copper.
As far as flashover is concerned; I would think that flashover in a room occurs long before the fire reaches any piping systems.
The author totally dismisses metal piping; making the assumption that it is not tested; but, instead "grandfathered"; which is a ridiculous statement. He dismisses metal pipe because it is superior.
The article is totally biased; even comparing CPVC to nylon, wood, and cotton; none of which are used to produce water pipe.
What he is really doing is comparing two of the "cheapest" alternatives; as apposed to using reliable piping systems (metal pipe).
Good Morning Ya'll,
Uncle Bob
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
UB: You are correct. I believe the key words are flame source. If you put a torch to CPVC it will burn/ char. When you remove it then just smoke and it will go out. I agree most of it is a sales pitch. I believe that it still is a source of fuel and can contribute to flash over. One must consider the fuel that is aiding the fire in the first place. Then the fact that the sprinklers didn't react to put the fire out and allow it to reach an excellerated point. Some good info to ponder,but a little smoke an mirrors.
I have heard this claim before. The spin was good reading, so I have made my notes. Am not sold on that junk anyway, but have to approve it. Oh well!
The funny thing is on the limiting Oxygen Index the didn't list steel pipe as a comparison! Still have a few brain cells working!
UB: You are correct. I believe the key words are flame source. If you put a torch to CPVC it will burn/ char. When you remove it then just smoke and it will go out. I agree most of it is a sales pitch. I believe that it still is a source of fuel and can contribute to flash over. One must consider the fuel that is aiding the fire in the first place. Then the fact that the sprinklers didn't react to put the fire out and allow it to reach an excellerated point. Some good info to ponder,but a little smoke an mirrors.
I have heard this claim before. The spin was good reading, so I have made my notes. Am not sold on that junk anyway, but have to approve it. Oh well!
The funny thing is on the limiting Oxygen Index the didn't list steel pipe as a comparison! Still have a few brain cells working!
Re: Plastic pipe article
Not a plumbing eng mag fan, just passing on articles, most of the time it goes in the little circular file setting on the floor.
I do not think cvpc pipe will help that much in pushing a room to flash over.
Now that it has been brought up, I guess we will have to open up our city approved lab and see what happens when you put fire to cvpc.
Been slow lately so can put it on the to do list, and take some pictures to post.
And I get paid to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a plumbing eng mag fan, just passing on articles, most of the time it goes in the little circular file setting on the floor.
I do not think cvpc pipe will help that much in pushing a room to flash over.
Now that it has been brought up, I guess we will have to open up our city approved lab and see what happens when you put fire to cvpc.
Been slow lately so can put it on the to do list, and take some pictures to post.
And I get paid to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FM William Burns
REGISTERED
Re: Plastic pipe article
Nicely put UB
I was waiting to see when the association to specific interest was revealed.
General Response: The key is reading through the details and knowing about temperatures and heat release rates of various common household commodities. Flashover can occur within a compartment at varying temperatures and there are too many variables to blindly state one temperature is applicable to a discussion. Fire temperatures are also relative to these same room variables that can't always be duplicated to determine the author's bases for what appears as a solicitation article. They are good for informational purposes and making one research further which continually provides educational opportunities for all. Personally, I support the use of all compliant piping systems.
Nicely put UB
I was waiting to see when the association to specific interest was revealed.
General Response: The key is reading through the details and knowing about temperatures and heat release rates of various common household commodities. Flashover can occur within a compartment at varying temperatures and there are too many variables to blindly state one temperature is applicable to a discussion. Fire temperatures are also relative to these same room variables that can't always be duplicated to determine the author's bases for what appears as a solicitation article. They are good for informational purposes and making one research further which continually provides educational opportunities for all. Personally, I support the use of all compliant piping systems.
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
FM: You are correct! Cda: Still tanks for the reading material! UB: You are still on the A game! The only thing missing is CA and death by CPVC and little BO and egg crate straps to hold it in place ! :lol:
FM: You are correct! Cda: Still tanks for the reading material! UB: You are still on the A game! The only thing missing is CA and death by CPVC and little BO and egg crate straps to hold it in place ! :lol:
Re: Plastic pipe article
UB representing ConArb;
"CPVC Put California Families at Risk
(In your Homes
Leaching studies commissioned by the State of California and conducted by UC Berkeley found that CPVC plumbing pipe systems may leach potentially toxic chemicals such as chloroform, tetrahydrofuran, methyl ethyl ketone, acetone and organotins into drinking water. These chemicals may cause cancer in humans or other serious health impacts. When leached from CPVC plumbing systems, the public may be exposed to these chemicals through consumption of drinking water, inhalation and skin exposure during bathing.
(For Fire Fighters
CPVC releases toxic smoke containing cancer-causing dioxins when burned in residential fires, plastic incinerators and landfill fires. Dioxin is considered one the most toxic chemicals known to science."
From the California State Pipe Trades Council;
http://www.calpipes.org/ProtectingCalifornians_CPVC.asp
If we used CPVC pipe to supply our enemies with water; we would be charged with crimes against humanity.
For ConArb
By Uncle Bob
UB representing ConArb;
"CPVC Put California Families at Risk
(In your Homes
Leaching studies commissioned by the State of California and conducted by UC Berkeley found that CPVC plumbing pipe systems may leach potentially toxic chemicals such as chloroform, tetrahydrofuran, methyl ethyl ketone, acetone and organotins into drinking water. These chemicals may cause cancer in humans or other serious health impacts. When leached from CPVC plumbing systems, the public may be exposed to these chemicals through consumption of drinking water, inhalation and skin exposure during bathing.
(For Fire Fighters
CPVC releases toxic smoke containing cancer-causing dioxins when burned in residential fires, plastic incinerators and landfill fires. Dioxin is considered one the most toxic chemicals known to science."
From the California State Pipe Trades Council;
http://www.calpipes.org/ProtectingCalifornians_CPVC.asp
If we used CPVC pipe to supply our enemies with water; we would be charged with crimes against humanity.
For ConArb
By Uncle Bob
FM William Burns
REGISTERED
Re: Plastic pipe article
UB,
I certainly don’t doubt the leaching toxins in CPVC if used for public water distribution piping and consumption. Regarding the release of toxins under fire conditions; I would certainly agree, however under fire conditions where a fire sprinkler system would utilize listed and approved CPVC piping networks, there is extremely minimal risk to civilian exposure. Regarding firefighter safety, under fire conditions typically we are instructed to use protective gear even in sprinkled buildings and should always utilize measuring devices to establish safe breathing environments in a structure before removing that protective gear. The days of leather lungs and smoke eaters have hopefully long been replaced with safer practices in the field.
UB,
I certainly don’t doubt the leaching toxins in CPVC if used for public water distribution piping and consumption. Regarding the release of toxins under fire conditions; I would certainly agree, however under fire conditions where a fire sprinkler system would utilize listed and approved CPVC piping networks, there is extremely minimal risk to civilian exposure. Regarding firefighter safety, under fire conditions typically we are instructed to use protective gear even in sprinkled buildings and should always utilize measuring devices to establish safe breathing environments in a structure before removing that protective gear. The days of leather lungs and smoke eaters have hopefully long been replaced with safer practices in the field.
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
Who is representing the strap man?
Who is representing the strap man?
conarb
REGISTERED
Re: Plastic pipe article
That's where I stopped reading.Uncle Bob said:
JBI
REGISTERED
Re: Plastic pipe article
That's twice, a third reference and he will rise from the ashes as a Phoenix, raining down on us with carnivorous strap nets that will consume us all, and excrete our digested remains as safer buildings capable of withstanding all known (and most hitherto unknown) forces of nature! :lol:
(You know we love you R D )
That's twice, a third reference and he will rise from the ashes as a Phoenix, raining down on us with carnivorous strap nets that will consume us all, and excrete our digested remains as safer buildings capable of withstanding all known (and most hitherto unknown) forces of nature! :lol:
(You know we love you R D
)
RJJ
Co-Founder
Re: Plastic pipe article
CA: I did read the whole thing and then some. Then on the second read just for fun I noticed in the bottom left " Mathew Kuwatch is the global marking manager for blaze master" Go figure!
Next, they will have Paula Dean selling bean dip and and mixing it up with CPVC on QVC! And ya know it don't burn when I stir the Mushrooms!
CA: I did read the whole thing and then some. Then on the second read just for fun I noticed in the bottom left " Mathew Kuwatch is the global marking manager for blaze master" Go figure!
Next, they will have Paula Dean selling bean dip and and mixing it up with CPVC on QVC! And ya know it don't burn when I stir the Mushrooms!