Plastic pipe hole size

[steveray]

Searched a bit and couldn't find a discussion or spec as to wether or not holes for plastic pipe need to be any larger than the pipe for expansion or if it only expands linearly?...Any input on this......Besides the structural concerns.....

 

[Mark K]

Will suggest that the expansion due to temperature change is small thus almost any gap, such as shown in the photo, will be more than enough. Even if there were contact I would not expect it to cause failure in the pipe. Bottom line I would not sweat this issue.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Consider where standard is not reference

d

2009 303.2 Installation of Materials;

Charlotte Pipe PVC Technical Manual;

• Allow for movement due to thermal expansion and contraction.

• Use pipe straps that fully encircle the tube.

• Drill holes 1⁄4 inch larger than the outside diameter of the pipe or tube when penetrating wood studs.

 

[steveray]

Thanks Mark.....I wasn't really "concerned", but I just thought I had remembered something in a manufacturer spec or something that called for semi specific oversizing....Maybe I am remembering a rated penetration detail.....Wanted to make sure that when I have them fix it that we got it 100%

 

[steveray]

Thanks FV....I was looking on Charlotte's site and couldn't find that....Thought I found the tech manual, but throw up a link if you can...I will look again...

 

[Francis Vineyard]

I read it quick; this apparantly requires this gap for water supply CPVC not PVC and sewer?

http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf

 

[steveray]

Yep...just saw that too.....and this....

Charlotte Pipe and Foundry does not

recommend the use of polyurethane spray- on foam

insulation in conjunction with its CPVC pipe and fittings.

And this....

Using Plastics for Combustion Gas Venting

Charlotte Pipe recommends that inquiries about the suitability

of plastic piping systems for venting combustion gasses

should be directed to the manufacturer of the water or

space heating equipment being installed. As stated in the

International Code Council’s International Fuel Gas Code

503.4.1.1:

Plastic Pipe and fittings used to vent appliances shall be

installed in accordance with the appliance manufacturer’s

installation instructions.

Furthermore, several of the ASTM standards applicable to

plastic pipe and fittings that Charlotte Pipe manufactures

include the following note:

*******This standard specification does not include requirements for pipe and fittings intended to be used to vent combustion gases.********

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Quote "expands linearly"; top vertical pushes down and lower vetical pushes up on the horizontal . . .

A story for designers consideration if not a code change.

Wish I had pictures of this to show; recently several units in multi-story apartments had leaks behind washing machines; the water was from breakage of the laundry horizontal pipe at the studs apparently from expansion and contraction, building settlement or wood shrinkage. Interesting that the washer box connection held!

Another bad news is when the plumber discovered the fire stop caulk stuck to the pipe above the bottom plate penetration.

 

[Glenn]

Another bad news is when the plumber discovered the fire stop caulk stuck to the pipe above the bottom plate penetration.

This is a very interesting comment. Is it your thought that it is due to the combined shrinkage of wood over multiple floors, with a stack running through them all that does not shrink?

I imagine it's also due to the poor, but common, practice of putting firestop at the surface, and not inside an annular space around the pipe and inside the penetration.

Good thread.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Glenn, not in this case; wish I had pictures. Maybe next time.

 

[ICE]

I have encountered plans that specified that no pipe shall touch framing. The purpose was to control sound transmission. It was missed by all the trades and included conduit and sprinklers. In as much as it isn't a code violation, I gave them the option of getting the architect to accept it as is....he declined. There was three floors of efficiency units for elderly people....who can't hear all that well anyway.

I am not aware any broken pipe in my area and as long as it isn't under stress, it is generally good enough.

 

[Keystone]

Comment 1, that nail plate looks like its at an exterior wall, should be a cleat.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Need to remember to check for this next time;

There was significant Shrinkage...

and

MOVEMENT WITHIN MULTI-STORY