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Private for profit company on US Govt real estate

jar546

jar546

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A cell phone company is putting a tower on govt land that they leased. They are claiming that they are exempt from permits because it is govt land. The installation is not part of government service and just a convenient location for them. Since the installation an equipment are owned by a for profit company and it is not for government use, would they still be exempt?
 
In VA those on VDOT land are subject to regulation by the state not local building officials, unless the state asks us to look at it. When on state of fedral land it is outside the local jurisdiction but subject to their building official.
 
Around here, if it is US Gov. owned property, then they would be exempt from permitting with us, regardless of the end user.
 
I'd agree......around here, if the property is OWNED by state or feds.....we don't even go there....If the government is renting or leasing from a private company, game on....
 
The states and their municipalities have no jurisdiction on federal government land, look at the Indian casinos, since they are located on federal land in the hearts of cities people can gamble, smoke, and do all kinds to things not allowed by state law.
 
Boy all over the board answers

Pick one

So is this fed land ,, state land??? Other???

Is the land surrounded by your city??
 
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"A cell phone company is putting a tower on govt land that they leased. They areclaiming that they are exempt from permits because it is govt land. The installation is

not part of government service and just a convenient location for them. Since the

installation an equipment are owned by a for profit company and it is not for government

use, would they still be exempt?"
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Typically, whenever a lease agreement is formed, there are stipulations of who does what,when , where, yadda, yadda, yadda !..........Also, if this a private for profit company, who

will be receiving the revenues this cell tower will generate, ...who is supplying the

electrical power to the site, ...the 911 addressing , etc. ?

By simply being located on gub `mint property does not necessarily remove from the

local AHJ from having jurisdiction over it ?........I recommend that contact be made

with both the gub `mint property owner and the cell tower company, to perform a

"due diligence" investigation on the property, and to obtain a written response that

outlines the details of the lease agreement [ EX: Someone is working on the cell

tower.........That someone has a heat stroke, or heart attack... Does the local Fire Dept.

respond, if not then who does ? ].........Jurisdictional Authority simply has to be

established.......Even if the lease contract has already been executed, a Lease Rider

can be added to the contract.



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In Virginia the cell tower companies started locating on VDOT land (typically in limited access intechanges) to avoid local zoning regulations.

Locality does provide fire protection etc. Years ago a high rise state office building under construction had a fire on the umpteenth floor and there was no temporary standpipe. The Richmond fire chief asked the state for temporary standpipes and was told he did not have the authority to order them. He responded ok I cannot make you provide it, but if you don't be ready to fight your own fires--it was up within the week.
 
Well, I did my digging and knew the answer, even after the site engineer for the US Govt. said not permit was needed. After I questioned them more and asked them to please read the lease this was the response that I received:

Jeff, My apologies. I just read the lease. You are correct. I should have done that 2 weeks ago.

The permit application & applicable documents & drawings are with FedEx and will be delivered to you tomorrow.
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jar546 said:
Well, I did my digging and knew the answer, even after the site engineer for the US Govt. said not permit was needed. After I questioned them more and asked them to please read the lease this was the response that I received:
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Interesting, there must be a clause in the lease that the work on government property be inspected by a specified agency, I wonder which jurisdiction will get the fees? Federal Government property is not governed by any county or municipality. I've had contracts on both Federal and State buildings and there was never local inspection, all inspections were done by the Feds or State.
 
on an interesting note here in Massachusetts in the Town of West Springfield every September there is the Big E, formal know as the Eastern States Exposition, think of the county or state fair, but really BIG mostly new England is billed as "New England's Great State fair". It is the largest agricultural event on the eastern seaboard.

On the Avenue of States each New England state has a building to show case their state products, each building and the lot surrounding it is considered sovereign property belonging to each respective state. So the State of Maine need to do some fire sprinkler work and decided it did not need a permit from the local fire department (by the way the fair is so big the West Springfield FD has a substation a real building on the property for the duration of setup and take down for the 3 week event) to which the Fire Marshal said you are quibbling over $50.00 if you don't apply and pay and you have a fire, well just wait for the State of Maine FD to come down and put the fire out, the fee and permit application was promptly filed.
 
conarb said:
Interesting, there must be a clause in the lease that the work on government property be inspected by a specified agency, I wonder which jurisdiction will get the fees? Federal Government property is not governed by any county or municipality. I've had contracts on both Federal and State buildings and there was never local inspection, all inspections were done by the Feds or State.
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It's actually in the law depending whether or not it is a straight lease or lease with option for US Govt to purchase.
 
jar546 said:
It's actually in the law depending whether or not it is a straight lease or lease with option for US Govt to purchase.
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Jeff:

From Post #1 I thought it was government owned land that the cell phone company was leasing?

Jeff Post #1 said:
A cell phone company is putting a tower on govt land that they leased.
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Now you are saying it's privately owned land that the government has leased with an option to purchase? Big difference.
 
No government owned land with private structure being built on it. Govt has an option to purchase the structures or they can tear it all down. They are leasing the land but own the structures.
 
jar546 said:
No government owned land with private structure being built on it. Govt has an option to purchase the structures or they can tear it all down. They are leasing the land but own the structures.
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Jeff:

That explains it, when you said: "A cell phone company is putting a tower on govt land that they leased." I thought you meant that the cell phone company (they) leased the land from the government, what you meant was that the cell phone company was putting a tower on land that the government (they) had leased. Title runs with the land, if the government owns the land there is no local jurisdiction, if the government leases the land then there is local jurisdiction.
 
conarb said:
Jeff:That explains it, when you said: "A cell phone company is putting a tower on govt land that they leased." I thought you meant that the cell phone company (they) leased the land from the government, what you meant was that the cell phone company was putting a tower on land that the government (they) had leased. Title runs with the land, if the government owns the land there is no local jurisdiction, if the government leases the land then there is local jurisdiction.
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Let me try this again:

Land is owned by the govt.

Private company wants to build on it

Private company signs lease with govt in order to build on govt land

Local permits required per govt lease.
 
jar546 said:
Let me try this again:Land is owned by the govt.

Private company wants to build on it

Private company signs lease with govt in order to build on govt land

Local permits required per govt lease.
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The last line gives jurisdiction back to the locality

That old Federal supremacy thing
 
So the lesson learned here is to not think that we all know the answer based on past history. Get a copy of the lease and you may be surprised at what you find out.
 
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"So the lesson learned here is to not think that we all know the answer based on past history. Get a copy of the lease and you may be surprised at what you find out."
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Unfortunately for most of us, ..we tend not to learn from our past ! D`OH ! :eek:

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steveray said:
How or why do we enforce the conditions of the lease?.....Other than a phone call to the property owner.....
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Steve:

It's none of the AHJ's business since they have no jurisdiction on government land, Jeff is attempting to enforce a private contract. A case could be made that the AHJ is a third party beneficiary of the contract, but to prove the case the AHJ would have to prove monetary damages which would entail proving lost profits, at least in California it's illegal for government agencies to make a profit. In states without such a law do you really want to go to court and prove that you are making a profit off building inspection?
 
Not my first dance with this and they are required to notify you of the planned construction. The lease requires that they pull a permit and get inspections by the local authority which is me. They have an obligation to pull a permit and have inspections performed anyway so I was just helping them by having them read their contract after I received the notification. The govt should not be wasting their money and resources to inspect a for profit company when the lease requires he lessee to have those services provided by the local AHJ. This is pretty simple and I'm not attempting anything, just doing my job and providing a required service. Since I too am a for profit company this is good for me. It's the lazy local ahj on salary that does not want the extra work, not me. I'll take it all day long.
 
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