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pump in return plenum

B

BSSTG

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
729
Location
Seadrift, Tx.
Greetings,

Lo and behold I walked into the wrong house for an inspection today and found a whole host of problems like no permits first and foremost.

Anyway it was the usual but I did see something I'm pretty sure is wrong but I can't confirm.

The HVAC system is new. It's an upright system and the condensate is picked up by a pump and pumped out. The pump is on the floor inside the return air plenum. This thing can't go in there right, electric equipment and wiring etc.? I ran into this years ago with wiring in the plenum where the wiring is not associated with the equipment, but where are the code requirements for this? This system sits in the attached garage so there are a couple of other issues with flex ducts penetrating the garage/living room wall, gas piping messed up and so forth

Like I say I've got all I need for other issues but this one confuses me.

Whatcha think folks?

2012 IRC

BSSTG
 
old house, been gutted pretty much. Yea the air handler is one of those uprights sits up about 3' off of the floor on a platform. Platform is framed in supposedly air tight. Return air is drawn up through the platform. Pretty common around here. Some folks refer to them as updraft systems or vertical air handlers

I know who put in this ac system. We will butt heads for sure. It will be interesting.

BS
 
I have not encountered a condensate pump that is listed for use in a plenum. That doesn't mean that they don't exist.
 
$ * $ * $

BSSTG,

See Section M1411.3 - Condensate disposal [ in the `12 IRC ].

If your application is a true plenum type installation, you

might wanna look at Section 602.2.1. - Materials within plenums

[ in the `12 IMC ] for some reading.

$ * $ * $
 
Are you positive it is a plenum? You can have a mechanical room with a free return in that room that all the equipment is in and it not be a plenum.

PLENUM. A chamber that forms part of an air-circulation system other than the occupied space being conditioned
 
mtlogcabin said:
Are you positive it is a plenum? You can have a mechanical room with a free return in that room that all the equipment is in and it not be a plenum.PLENUM. A chamber that forms part of an air-circulation system other than the occupied space being conditioned
Click to expand...
Yes, it is a plenum.

BS
 
~ ! ~ ! ~



"OK, code section of IRC that says it can't be done"
Click to expand...
Let's see... 1st, there should have been an application for a permit[ All listed code section are from the `12 IRC, Section R104.2,

& R105.1 ], ...2nd, there should have been information submitted

for review & approval by the BO [ Section R105.3 ], ...3rd,

in reviewing the "required" plans, ...the "non-compliant" design &

use of materials inside a plenum should have been noted and

disapproved [ Section R104.9 ], ...4th, it is the responsibility

of the person who obtains a permit, to be responsible for

complying with the applicable codes [ Section R105.8 ].

Also, Section M1411.3 is the code section that requires

condensate disposal to be by gravity to an approved location.

Is this enough ? :mrgreen:



~ ! ~ ! ~
 
north star said:
~ ! ~ ! ~Let's see... 1st, there should have been an application for a permit

[ All listed code section are from the `12 IRC, Section R104.2,

& R105.1 ], ...2nd, there should have been information submitted

for review & approval by the BO [ Section R105.3 ], ...3rd,

in reviewing the "required" plans, ...the "non-compliant" design &

use of materials inside a plenum should have been noted and

disapproved [ Section R104.9 ], ...4th, it is the responsibility

of the person who obtains a permit, to be responsible for

complying with the applicable codes [ Section R105.8 ].

Also, Section M1411.3 is the code section that requires

condensate disposal to be by gravity to an approved location.

Is this enough ? :mrgreen:



~ ! ~ ! ~
Click to expand...
Does not say pump cannot be in plenum

Does not say cannot do above the minimum, as long as water is removed
 
& ~ &



Those code sections DO say that the design & materials must

be approved before installing them.....Section M1411.3 requires

the condensate to drain by gravity means, not by a pump, ...plus

no permit or plans submitted for review.



Since the design, pump & other materials were not approved,

IMO, the BO has the authority to remove them and request a

compliant design & materials be submitted.



$ ~ $
 
The IMC allows it

602.2.1 Materials within plenums.

Except as required by sections 602.2.1.1 through 602.2.1.5, materials within plenums shall be noncombustible or shall be listed and labeled as having a flame spread index of not more than 25 and a smoke-developed index of not more than 50 when tested in accordance with ASTM E 84 or UL 723.

Exceptions:

1. Rigid and flexible ducts and connectors shall conform to Section 603.

2. Duct coverings, linings, tape and connectors shall conform to Sections 603 and 604.

3. This section shall not apply to materials exposed within plenums in one- and two-family dwellings.

4. This section shall not apply to smoke detectors.

5. Combustible materials fully enclosed within one of the following:

5.1. Continuous noncombustible raceways or enclosures.

5.2. Approved gypsum board assemblies.

5.3. Materials listed and labeled for installation within a plenum.

6. Materials in Group H, Division 5 fabrication areas and the areas above and below the fabrication area that share a common air recirculation path with the fabrication area.
 
north star said:
& ~ &

Those code sections DO say that the design & materials must

be approved before installing them.....Section M1411.3 requires

the condensate to drain by gravity means, not by a pump, ...plus

no permit or plans submitted for review.



Since the design, pump & other materials were not approved,

IMO, the BO has the authority to remove them and request a

compliant design & materials be submitted.



$ ~ $
Click to expand...
So I submit plans and try to get a permit

Showing I am going to automatically pump any water out, and the pump will be in the plenum. I am Proposing to go above the minimum code.

Do I get my permit???
 
north star said:
& ~ &

Those code sections DO say that the design & materials must

be approved before installing them.....Section M1411.3 requires

the condensate to drain by gravity means, not by a pump, ...plus

no permit or plans submitted for review.



Since the design, pump & other materials were not approved,

IMO, the BO has the authority to remove them and request a

compliant design & materials be submitted.



$ ~ $
Click to expand...
So I submit plans and try to get a permit

Showing I am going to automatically pump any water out, and the pump will be in the plenum. I am Proposing to go above the minimum code.

Do I get my permit???
 
& ~ & ~ &

cda,

Does your Proposed design comply with the code requirements

of M1411.3 ?

& ~ & ~ &
 
mtlogcabin said:
Exceptions:

3. This section shall not apply to materials exposed within plenums in one- and two-family dwellings.
Click to expand...
That isn't in the Ca code. Another thing to look at is if the pump has a restriction to keep it out of a plenum. I would think that the manufacturer doesn't want an electric appliance with their name on it in a return air plenum.
 
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