Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

[texasbo]

2006 IBC requires 20' mall width, and 10' minimum clear width between tenant space and any kiosk, bench, or other obstruction (402.5.1), requires 20' spacing between kiosks or groupings thereof and other obstructions in the mall, and limits the area of kiosks or similar obstructions to 300 square feet (402.10).

I need honest, candid answers here. Are you actively enforcing these requirements, and if so how? Are you requiring permits, keeping a plan of mall obstructions, making periodic inspections, relying on FD annual inspections, etc?

We enforce the letter of the code regarding mall obstructions, keep an up to date plan, and require permits for kiosks and similar mall obstructions. I have recently encountered the old "nobody else makes us do that", when dealing with a 1000 square foot "children's play area" (babysitting space) that would violate some of the above listed code requirements.

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Coug Dad]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

Keep up the enforcement! Covered malls can easily slip where the means of egress through the mall becomes obstructed and would not be readily usable if an emergency were to occur. Have the mall work up a drawings depicting the required egress widths. This make it very easy for them, and you, to know if a kiosk or other obstruction is allowed.

 

[vegas paul]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

Basically, I just keep my eyes open when my wife drags me to the mall... gives me something to do to pass the time. If I see something significantly changed from initial construction/approved plans, I let one of the field inspectors (or fire inspectors) know about it and they can check it out and writ it up, if necessary.

 

[gvictor]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

before I retired we did what you do, and what Paul does. The combination seems to work the best, and they just really love me going into the management office to say hi. We also check the fire command roon to insure maps and lists are updated there as well.

Honestly, with the economy now, I don't know what they are doing now.

Keep it up.

Greg

 

[AegisFPE]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

While the 300-square-foot rule may be a basic prescriptive measure seeking to limit the potential area involved by a fire event, consideration to design fire scenarios of the smoke control system serving the covered mall building could justify an increase or decrease the area and/or spacing of combustibles in the mall space, depending on the fuel package.

Where a building, or elements thereof, is/are developed utilizing a performance-based design, it is important to utilize the design information in evaluating the operation of the facility, as it may or may not correspond to prescribed code provisions. This document should also be maintained in the fire control room.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

While the 300-square-foot rule may be a basic prescriptive measure seeking to limit the potential area involved by a fire event, consideration to design fire scenarios of the smoke control system serving the covered mall building could justify an increase or decrease the area and/or spacing of combustibles in the mall space, depending on the fuel package.Where a building, or elements thereof, is/are developed utilizing a performance-based design, it is important to utilize the design information in evaluating the operation of the facility, as it may or may not correspond to prescribed code provisions. This document should also be maintained in the fire control room.

Thanks Aegis, and I always appreciate your input. From a fire loading standpoint, I would be willing to consider an engineered alternate. However, I'm also concerned about exit obstructions. The basic formula prescribed in the code, 300 SF, 20' separation, 10' from face of mall to obstruction, etc. also insures adequate circulation and egress in a panic situation, does it not? This crazy thing they're talking about would be less than 10' wide, and over 100' long, right down the middle of the mall!

A covered mall building gets some breaks because of the minimum required clear width and obstruction clearance of the mall itself. Once you start loading up the space for it's entire length, or a good part of it, it just becomes a corridor, and a noncomplying one at that.

Do you disagree?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

In PA we don't do any inspections on existing buildings untill they do work that requirs a permit unless there is a local law for it.

I would like to know if other inspectors check all the exits, every accesable parking space, every rest room, and all accessable routes at a mall when you are inspecting a new kiosk or tenet fit-out.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Question for those with Covered Mall Buildings in your juris

In PA we don't do any inspections on existing buildings untill they do work that requirs a permit unless there is a local law for it.I would like to know if other inspectors check all the exits, every accesable parking space, every rest room, and all accessable routes at a mall when you are inspecting a new kiosk or tenet fit-out.

Rick, just speaking for my jurisdiction, we would not. If we were inspecting the new kiosk, we would only inspect how it affected the building, unless of course we encountered an obvious life safety violation.

I will tell you that we often have to recheck overall exit calculations if occupant load is increasing, but of course that's going to happen in any occupancy. It makes it so much easier if you keep an up to date plan.