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Receptacles in commercial kitchens

M

mshields

Silver Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
105
Location
Plymouth, MA
Doing a hospital kitchen. Receptacles will of course be all GFCI but the environment is very wet with a lot of washdown going on. I'm hesitant to specify cluncky outdoor waterproof covers but wondering if perhaps I should.

Any suggestions?
 
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mshields,

I agree with **pwood**.......The hospital will have to

unplug the cord & plug connected equipment / appliances

whenever they "wash down"......This may be a problem

too, because most people aren't going to remember to,

or simply do not want to plug all equipment & appliances.

& & &
 
Yankee said:
Where is it written that you can specify anything other than GFI?
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No deviations from locations specified

NEC 210.8

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125 volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(B)(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

Bathrooms

Kitchens

Rooftops

Outdoors

Exception No. 1 to (3) and (4): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.

Exception No. 2 to (4): In industrial establishments only, where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified personnel are involved, an assured equipment grounding conductor program as specified in 590.6(B)(2) shall be permitted for only those receptacle outlets used to supply equipment that would create a greater hazard if power is interrupted or having a design that is not compatible with GFCI protection.

Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink.

Exception No. 1 to (5): In industrial laboratories, receptacles used to supply equipment where removed of power would introduce a greater hazard shall be permitted to be installed without GFCI protection.

Exception No. 2 to (5): For receptacles located in patient bed locations of general care or critical care areas of health care facilities other than those covered under 210.8(B)(1), GFCI protection shall not be required.

Indoor wet locations

Locker rooms with associated showering facilities

Garages, service bays, and similar areas where electrical diagnostic equipment, electrical hand tools, or portable lighting equipment are to be used

© Boat Hoists. GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets not exceeding 240 volts that supply boat hoists installed in dwelling unit locations.
 
I'm not seeing where a solid argument can be made that covers, either WP or in-service, can be required in the installation as I understand it in the original post (Simply, in commercial kitchens or anyplace else that requires mopping and cleaning). Certainly they can be spec-ed as a owner choice, which is it here, a choice or looking for a requirement?
 
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Yankee,

Article 110.3(A)(8) gives the AHJ the authority to require

safeguarding of various equipment......If you are the AHJ,

...your opinion counts for the receptacles in a wet location.

The AHJ has the latitude to require protection!

) - - - -

 
i don't see why a "wp when closed" cover couldn't be applied to this instance. as northstar said, the bo has the clout, and you dont to soak receptacles you'll be plugging into later, thats asking for trouble. if theres a lot of wash down, that;s what i'd do
 
If you declare a space to be a wet location, there's more to the story than receptacle covers. The GFCI receptacles would need to be listed for a wet location as would switches, light fixtures and the can opener.

What have hospital kitchens been doing for the last 100 years?

I would think that they do get aggressive with cleaning but stop short of hosing the place.

Most everything that is used in a commercial kitchen must be approved by some entity such as a health dept. Add to the equation that it's a hospital and more agencies weigh in.

I remember a case where trapeze supports for conduit were supposed to be square steel tube and unistrut was substituted. I found it in a general note. The contractor did his best to talk me out of it. I told him that no matter what I do, the health will be all over this.
 
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fatboy said:
Man I hate saying this openly, but I agree with ICE. Along the same lines as Yankee also.
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Not to worry fatboy, I'll come up with something that you can wholeheartedly disagree with in short order.
 
north star said:
- - - - (Yankee,

Article 110.3(A)(8) gives the AHJ the authority to require

safeguarding of various equipment......If you are the AHJ,

...your opinion counts for the receptacles in a wet location.

The AHJ has the latitude to require protection!

) - - - -

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IMO, this section is a cop out. For an ahj to judge this as wet location when the NEC clearly does not require it to be so is not a valid call. If the NEC thought that a commercial kitchen should be wet then it would have required wp plates etc and stated so.
 
The NEC requires it under definitions of locations, wet- includes areas subject to saturation with water or other liquids. Then go to 406.9(B)(1) requiring all 15 and 20 amp, 125 and 250 volt receptacles installed in wet locations shall have a weather-proof enclosure whether a plug is attached or not and as of 2011 it shall be identified as extra heavy duty for commercial use. I have required this in installation where they have wash down procedures.
 
rnapier said:
The NEC requires it under definitions of locations, wet- includes areas subject to saturation with water or other liquids. Then go to 406.9(B)(1) requiring all 15 and 20 amp, 125 and 250 volt receptacles installed in wet locations shall have a weather-proof enclosure whether a plug is attached or not and as of 2011 it shall be identified as extra heavy duty for commercial use. I have required this in installation where they have wash down procedures.
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I have to assume then that you have required this in public bathrooms as well as all institutional/commercial/school kitchens? If you are consistent in your jurisdiction, , , well ok then. (North Star, I am the AHJ so yes I am very familiar with that section) I agree with Dennis on this one.
 
Dennis said:
IMO, this section is a cop out. For an ahj to judge this as wet location when the NEC clearly does not require it to be so is not a valid call. If the NEC thought that a commercial kitchen should be wet then it would have required wp plates etc and stated so.
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Dennis I do not believe the NEC requires a space to be classified, the activity that takes place in the area dictates how it is classified.

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.

Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

What the NEC does dictate is the prerequisite through definitions such as wet location.

Not all commercial kitchens will wash down the walls where the outlets would be exposed to saturation from water, but in the cases where it is designed to happen then the AHJ should make the decision to require the protection under 110.3 (A) (8). Processing plants, dairies etc. do not all have the same enviroment so the design professional should submit this information to the plan review for approval. If it is brought to the AHJ attention after the fact it would be due diligence on there part to make it safe.
 
= = =

This is a very good topic and discussion....Thanks to all!

FWIW, ...in this area I haven't seen too much actual

washing [ i.e. - saturation ] of the restrooms or their

surfaces, mostly just a wipe down, if that.

Also, I would offer up Article 110.11 [ `08 NEC ] -

Deteriorating Agents.......If some type of waterproof cover

is not installed on the receptacles, or other approved means

to seal completely the conductors & associated components,

how will the "liquids" be kept out?

We can all agree that the introduction of water into a

space or component, will greatly contribute to the

deterioration of those components or spaces

[ see Article 398.15(B) ]......We code officials go to

great; dare I say, extreme lengths to keep "unintentional"

water out of the built environment [ RE: various chapters

in the IRC ].....Why would we not also keep it out of and

off of the electrical components in this case?....Also,

look at the Index for the NEC, it is filled with Articles

on protection from corrosion and its effects.



= = =
 
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Having worked extensively in custodial engineering (Dormitory Kitchens, Shower Rooms & Bath Houses) during my college days, I have rarely seen a cleaning condition where walls with electrical outlets were sprayed down with a hose, and even then it was minimal and with great care. Most of the time we pulled the equipment out, disconnected it, and scrubbed the walls by hand with rags and brushes. A time consuming and tireing process.

As I see it, it is a design issue that should have been addressed by the RDP, and could still be. If in fact they are spraying these walls down (I would require a letter of operations from the RDP), then they should be treated as if they are in a wet location such as a vehicular wash bay. It is either a wet location, a damp location, or a dry location. Make the RDP choose and proceed accordingly.
 
Yankee said:
I have to assume then that you have required this in public bathrooms as well as all institutional/commercial/school kitchens? If you are consistent in your jurisdiction, , , well ok then.
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Those locations are not generally subject to saturation. I generally ask if the area is subject to saturation and treat it accordingly.
 
Papio Bldg Dept said:
It is either a wet location, a damp location, or a dry location. Make the RDP choose and proceed accordingly.
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The opinion of a RDP is worth hearing and the BO makes the decision. If the RDP wants electrical equipment that is approved for a wet location, she has that option. Shirley, the BO, will see to it that the equipment is installed per it's listing. That, in and of itself, will not transform a dry location into a wet location.
 
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