Removing Tennis Courts to Expand Pool Deck

[jar546]

It appears as though pools and tennis courts are both A4 when it comes to outdoor assemblies. If tennis courts are to be removed in order to extend the pool deck and provide more space for residents and guests in a condominium environment, although it is not a change of use and occupancy classification as they are both A4, the occupant load certainly changes. In this case, they will be adding a gathering area with tables, chairs, and even a bar with a sink and a community grill.

Of course, there is no documentation to refer to on this older building, and if there were, would it even have an occupant load is my question. Probably not. So, this got me thinking about how an occupant load for a tennis court would be calculated by the design professional and verified by the building department.

Then there is this:

1004.7 Outdoor areas.

​

Yards, patios, occupiable roofs, courts and similar outdoor areas accessible to and usable by the building occupants shall be provided with means of egress as required by this chapter. The occupant load of such outdoor areas shall be assigned by the building official in accordance with the anticipated use. Where outdoor areas are to be used by persons in addition to the occupants of the building, and the path of egress travel from the outdoor areas passes through the building, means of egress requirements for the building shall be based on the sum of the occupant loads of the building plus the outdoor areas.
Exceptions:

1. 1.Outdoor areas used exclusively for service of the building need only have one means of egress.
2. 2.Both outdoor areas associated with Group R-3 and individual dwelling units of Group R-2.

This is the language that I don't agree with: The occupant load of such outdoor areas shall be assigned by the building official in accordance with the anticipated use.
Since when does the code suddenly require the BO to be the designer? We can verify and agree or disagree, but "shall be assigned by the building official" when it comes to an occupancy load? Really?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I would confer with the architect and see if we could agree with a number.

 

[steveray]

I've rarely not been able to come to an agreement on a number.......And it is a COO as is it a change in how the space is used...IMO

 

[mtlogcabin]

A-4 is indoor A-5 is outdoor
Calculate it based on the egress width provided from the area.
A 36" opening is 180 people.

1005.3.2 Other egress components.
The capacity, in inches, of means of egress components other than stairways shall be calculated by multiplying the occupant load served by such component by a means of egress capacity factor of 0.2 inch (5.1 mm) per occupant.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I don't agree that tennis courts are an A4 occupancy -- or any other occupancy -- unless they are indoor tennis courts. Tennis courts are not buildings, they are site amenities. I have never heard of a building department trying to argue that a building permiit is needed to put in an outdoor tennis court.

The "courts" referred to IBC 1004.7 doesn't refer to tennis courts. From the IBC Commentary (2021) Definitions:

[BG] COURT. An open, uncovered space, unobstructed to the
sky, bounded on three or more sides by exterior building walls
or other enclosing devices.

Though not specifically identified in the definition, the
provisions in the code for courts (see Section 1205)
are only applicable to those areas created by the
arrangement of exterior walls and used to provide natural
light or ventilation (see Section 1205.1 and the
definition of “Yard.” See also the definition of “Egress
court” for courts that are utilized for exit discharge.).

Yes, I suppose you could argue that the fence around a tennis court is an enclosing device, but I've never regarded it as making a tennis court into a "court" as regulated by the IBC.

 

[steveray]

I don't agree that tennis courts are an A4 occupancy -- or any other occupancy -- unless they are indoor tennis courts. Tennis courts are not buildings, they are site amenities. I have never heard of a building department trying to argue that a building permiit is needed to put in an outdoor tennis court.

The "courts" referred to IBC 1004.7 doesn't refer to tennis courts. From the IBC Commentary (2021) Definitions:



Yes, I suppose you could argue that the fence around a tennis court is an enclosing device, but I've never regarded it as making a tennis court into a "court" as regulated by the IBC.

Sooooo.....if I add 500 tables outside a Subway.....I don't have to worry about that OL for bathrooms? Are we talking occupancy or occupant load?

 

[jar546]

A-4 is indoor A-5 is outdoor
Calculate it based on the egress width provided from the area.
A 36" opening is 180 people.

1005.3.2 Other egress components.
The capacity, in inches, of means of egress components other than stairways shall be calculated by multiplying the occupant load served by such component by a means of egress capacity factor of 0.2 inch (5.1 mm) per occupant.

Correct on the A-5. My mistake.

 

[jar546]

I don't agree that tennis courts are an A4 occupancy -- or any other occupancy -- unless they are indoor tennis courts. Tennis courts are not buildings, they are site amenities. I have never heard of a building department trying to argue that a building permiit is needed to put in an outdoor tennis court.

From tennis courts to a pool deck, gathering area, a/k/a Assembly. Did I mention this tennis court being removed is on top of the parking garage next to the pool and pool deck? You have to go through the building to get to the tennis court on top of the structure.

 

[jar546]

Sooooo.....if I add 500 tables outside a Subway.....I don't have to worry about that OL for bathrooms? Are we talking occupancy or occupant load?

Exactly. This is absolutely a change in occupant load and restrooms must be addressed.

 

[steveray]

Exactly. This is absolutely a change in occupant load and restrooms must be addressed.

Only if it increases by 20%...sort of...

1009.1 Increased Demand​

Where the occupancy of an existing building or part of an existing building is changed such that the new occupancy is subject to increased or different plumbing fixture requirements or to increased water supply requirements in accordance with the International Plumbing Code, the new occupancy shall comply with the intent of the respective International Plumbing Code provisions.
Exception: Only where the occupant load of the story is increased by more than 20 percent, plumbing fixtures for the story shall be provided in quantities specified in the International Plumbing Code based on the increased occupant load.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Sooooo.....if I add 500 tables outside a Subway.....I don't have to worry about that OL for bathrooms? Are we talking occupancy or occupant load?

That depends -- if they are on Subway's property, then Subway has to provide plumbing facilities for Subway's patrons. If, as in many cities, entire streets have been closed to automobile traffic and the seating is in the public right-of-way, then the city has to worry about the toilet (and similar) provisions.

Back to swimming pool decks vs. tennis courts -- when is the last time you included an outdoor tennis court in the occupant load calculation for any building, facility, or complex? I've never heard of it being done. Once you start doing that, where do you stop? What's the occupant load for an 18-hole gold course, and what plumbing fixture ratios apply?

I understand the issue -- going from a tennis court or courts to an expanded pool deck is clearly going to result in more people. The problem lies in identifying the code path to address that. I don't see any way under the IBC to claim any IBC jurisdiction over outdoor tennis courts, occupant load, or provided toilet facilities (or lack thereof). This would be especially so in a condominium setting, where the tennis players would arguably be condo owners, residents, and their guests, so they would have access to the plumbing facilities in their homes.

In my state, aside from the building code the Public Health Code has requirements for plumbing fixture requirements for "public" swimming pools and their associated decks, so it gets covered even if the building code and plumbing code don't address it. But the way the occupant load is calculated was (the last time I reviewed such a project, which was several years ago, was different under the Public Health Code than it was under the building and plumbing codes, so there was quite a dispute, since our view that the more restrictive applied and the developer (naturally) argued that the less restrictive applied. The developer lost -- but it took awhile.

IBC 1004.7 addresses outdoor areas, but it does so for outdoor areas such as "Yards, patios, occupied roofs, courts and similar outdoor areas accessible to and usable by the building occupants." I think it's a stretch to consider tennis courts as falling in that context. Every town I know of around where I live has municipal, public tennis courts. None provide any toilet rooms. But "tennis courts" are not buildings or structures. The only part of a tennis court complex that could remotely be argued to be under the purview of the building code would be the chain link fence that typically surrounds the courts. If a town wanted to provide toilet facilities, I think it would be up to them to decide how many fixtures.

How many plumbing fixtures are required for an Interstate highway rest area? How do you calculate the occupant load for an Interstate highway?

Swimming pools (especially "public" pools, which would apply to a condo pool complex), on the other hand, ARE regulated by the building code. Once something falls under the purview of the building codes, the building official gets to assign an occupant load. So a pool deck could use the 1:15 ratio for seating at tables and chairs, or perhaps the 1:7 ratio for movable seating without tables and chairs.

 

[Joe.B]

Y'all probably use IPC, so it may look different, but this would make it pretty easy I think.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Don't forget to read the footnotes


f. The required number and type of plumbing fixtures for outdoor swimming pools shall be in accordance with Section 609 of the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code.

SECTION 609
TOILET ROOMS AND BATHROOMS

609.1 General.
Toilet and bath facilities shall be in accordance with Sections 609.2 through 609.9.

609.2 Number of fixtures.
Pools shall have toilet facilities with the number of fixtures in accordance with Section 609.2.1 or 609.2.2.

609.2.1 Water area less than 7500 square feet.
Facilities that have less than 7500 gross square feet (697 m2) of water area available for bather access shall have not less than one water closet for males, one urinal for males, one lavatory for males, one shower for males, two water closets for females, one lavatory for females and one shower for females.

609.2.2 Water area 7500 square feet or more.
Facilities that have 7500 gross square feet (697 m2) or more of water area available for bather access shall have not less than 0.7 water closet for males, one urinal for males, 0.85 lavatory for males, one shower for males, two water closets for females, one lavatory for females and one shower for females for every 7500 square feet (697 m2) or portion thereof. Where the result of the fixture calculation is a portion of a whole number, the result shall be rounded up to the nearest whole number.