Replacing existing conventional fire alarm panel with addressable type

[katwalatapan]

Hello,

I have a query concerning replacement of an existing conventional fire alarm system control panel with an addressable type. The existing building with conventional panel has conventional smoke detectors, pull stations, etc. and class B wiring. It is not possible to add additional zones in the panel because it is at capacity. Due to an additional renovation in the building it is required to add some additional fire detection devices and concerned zones.

As an alternative if we decide to consider an addressable panel, then we may have to change the wiring as well unless an addressable panel compatible with existing type of wiring is available. Also the conventional type smoke detectors, pull stations, would also have to be replaced.

I would appreciate your comments on the following queries:

1. Considering the above scenario, is it cost-effective to replace a conventional type fire alarm control panel with an addressable type?

2. Is it required to change the existing type of wiring and field devices to addressable type or are addressable panels available that may be compatible with the existing conventional type devices?

3. Does it have any monetary effect on annual maintenance and inspection if the panel is changed to an addressable type? Also does addressable panels have any proprietary protocols that limits maintenance and inspection to only few or single provider?

Thank you.

 

[north star]

$ ~ ( = ) ~ $

1. IMO, ...yes!

2. Usually, the "new" system manufacturer will require all "new" components,

including the wiring.

3. This is the biggest concern...........Our organization has been experiencing this

for the past few years......We have been sold proprietary systems on "new" or

replacement projects, and are finding out "after the fact", ...that the systems

are very, very proprietary and [ seemingly ] revenue generators for the company

that installed them.........Currently, ...we have 2 choices regarding these systems,

...either to pay the extortion [ type ] fees that the system contractors require,

or to purchase another proprietary system with another company, and begin the

extortion process all over again. :banghd

We are currently spending hundreds of thousands of dollars each year with

this operation model.

I am very interested to hear others chime in with their experiences, and to find

out how to have a compliant fire alarm system installed, and where general trade(s)

contractors can repair \ service them with "off the shelf" parts [ if this is even

possible ].

$ ~ ( = ) ~ $

 

[mjesse]

$ ~ ( = ) ~ $1. IMO, ...yes!

2. Usually, the "new" system manufacturer will require all "new" components,

including the wiring.

3. This is the biggest concern...........Our organization has been experiencing this

for the past few years......We have been sold proprietary systems on "new" or

replacement projects, and are finding out "after the fact", ...that the systems

are very, very proprietary and [ seemingly ] revenue generators for the company

that installed them.........Currently, ...we have 2 choices regarding these systems,

...either to pay the extortion [ type ] fees that the system contractors require,

or to purchase another proprietary system with another company, and begin the

extortion process all over again. :banghd

We are currently spending hundreds of thousands of dollars each year with

this operation model.

I am very interested to hear others chime in with their experiences, and to find

out how to have a compliant fire alarm system installed, and where general trade(s)

contractors can repair \ service them with "off the shelf" parts [ if this is even

possible ].

$ ~ ( = ) ~ $

Agree 100% with this.

Beware the proprietary providers. $400-$500 per device from them is not uncommon here.

 

[TheCommish]

you can use interface modules to take the old analog zones and wiring into the new addressable panel provided the existing FA system is of the correct type of the building, that is the existing class of wiring appropriate for the building.

say away from propriety alarm systems and propriety monitoring.

 

[cda]

you can use interface modules to take the old analog zones and wiring into the new addressable panel provided the existing FA system is of the correct type of the building, that is the existing class of wiring appropriate for the building.say away from propriety alarm systems and propriety monitoring.

agree.......

 

[cda]

There are plenty plain jim fire alarm panels out there that are addessable, that anyone can work on.

such as firelite, and same panel with different names, plus there are some other plain jim fire alarm panels out theree. stay away from edwards, simplex, notifier and a few other that are proprietary.

As stated you normally can use exiting devices with a new addessable panel. Sometimes each existing device can be set up as addeassable, and sometimes they have to be set up as a zoned system.

My best advice would be to replace all devices. I know more moeny up front, but more than likely cheaper in the long run.

Talk to the fire alarm company, may be able to use existing wiring.

******** two bits of advice, one have you talked to the ahj about this, to see what they will accept, AND have at least three fire alarm companies come in look at what you have and give you a written proposal.. There are a few ways to get to where you want.

 

[tmurray]

I'm assuming you're in Halifax, Nova Scotia...

I cannot locate a requirement under CAN/ULC-S524 that prohibits using existing devices with a new system. We recently had a school do a fire alarm system upgrade, most of the devices were replaced or new, but some existing devices were reused with the existing wiring.

If you want someone local to do an in-depth review, I would contact RJ Bartlett. They have an office in Halifax and are a fire engineering firm, so this stuff is their bread and butter.

 

[cda]

I'm assuming you're in Halifax, Nova Scotia...I cannot locate a requirement under CAN/ULC-S524 that prohibits using existing devices with a new system. We recently had a school do a fire alarm system upgrade, most of the devices were replaced or new, but some existing devices were reused with the existing wiring.

If you want someone local to do an in-depth review, I would contact RJ Bartlett. They have an office in Halifax and are a fire engineering firm, so this stuff is their bread and butter.

as long as comaptable should be good to go

 

[katwalatapan]

Thank you everyone for your insights.