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Restaurant Layout - Fixed vs. Non-Fixed Seating and IBC

C

cdohh

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
5
Location
United States
Hey everyone! This is my first post to the forum, so forgive me if this topic has already been addressed--I did some searching and didn't find anything I was looking for, so I decided to post.I'm laying out the plan of a restaurant in Brooklyn, NY and am running into some questions about clear route/egress access as it pertains to fixed vs. non-fixed seating. See attached image for reference. On the far left is a built-in booth wall, with movable tables and stools that can slide under the tables. On the right is a prep kitchen directly adjacent to the bar seating (at this point, non-fixed as well). Also assume the kitchen/bar can't really shrink in size. I'm just wondering what standard practice for layouts in tighter spaces like this, where using non-fixed seating may be able to increase capacity by showing stools or tables overlapping to steer clear of the clear floor space required by IBC 2009 (36"). I know this may not be best practice by any means, but I'm just trying to more understand what confines I'm working within, and what I can do to maximize capacity based on code. I know NYC is especially keen on fitting more into smaller spaces, so any previous experience with this type of work would be incredible!Thanks in advance for any help at all!Best,Chris

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What is your total allowed capacity? Two exits required or one? Loose seating obviously can move, consider how a wheelchair can be manuvered in the space to each type of seating provided. Can you/servers manuver around them?
 
Welcome

How did you find us

Just post any question you have , no two are alike
 
Total allowed capacity isn't calculated just yet--still working on a bit of the concept of the restaurant as of now. But it will definitely fall under the 75 persons that usually require it to be classified as an Assembly occupancy. We're shooting more in the 40-45 person range.

This space is in the ground floor of a brownstone, so it's not a very big space--only one exit required based on the target capacity I believe.

I understand the functional aspects of servers needing to move in the clear floor space for sure, I guess I'm just wondering what would be the furthest I could push the boundaries of the IBC in this case. What I mean by this is--could I technically represent the stool seating opposite the booth as sliding all of the way under the table (not that I will, but is it legally allowable)? Or do these elements get treated as 'projections' into the clear floor space, where they are limited to 4". Hope this makes sense--if not, let me know and I will clarify further.
 
Note that you have multiple issues--one is an egress issue for non fixed seating the aisle width starts 19 inches from the edge of the table or bar so as shown you have a 22 inch aisle, depending on total occupant load and distances this may be an issue.

2009 IBC

SECTION 1017 AISLES

1017.1 General. Aisles serving as a portion of the exit access in the means of egress system shall comply with the requirements of this section. Aisles shall be provided from all occupied portions of the exit access which contain seats, tables, furnishings, displays and similar fixtures or equipment. Aisles serving assembly areas shall comply with Section 1028. Aisles serving reviewing stands, grandstands and bleachers shall also comply with Section 1028. The required width of aisles shall be unobstructed.

Exception: Doors complying with Section 1005.2.

snip

"1017.4 Seating at tables. Where seating is located at a table or counter and is adjacent to an aisle or aisle accessway, the measurement of required clear width of the aisle or aisle accessway shall be made to a line 19 inches (483 mm) away from and parallel to the edge of the table or counter. The 19-inch (483 mm) distance shall be measured perpendicular to the side of the table or counter. In the case of other side boundaries for aisle or aisle accessways, the clear width shall be measured to walls, edges of seating and tread edges, except that handrail projections are permitted.

Exception: Where tables or counters are served by fixed seats, the width of the aisle accessway shall be measured from the back of the seat.

1017.4.1 Aisle accessway for tables and seating. Aisle accessways serving arrangements of seating at tables or counters shall have sufficient clear width to conform to the capacity requirements of Section 1005.1 but shall not have less than the appropriate minimum clear width specified in Section 1017.4.2.

1017.4.2 Table and seating accessway width. Aisle accessways shall provide a minimum of 12 inches (305 mm) of width plus 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) of width for each additional 1 foot (305 mm), or fraction thereof, beyond 12 feet (3658 mm) of aisle accessway length measured from the center of the seat farthest from an aisle.

Exception: Portions of an aisle accessway having a length not exceeding 6 feet (1829 mm) and used by a total of not more than four persons.

1017.4.3 Table and seating aisle accessway length. The length of travel along the aisle accessway shall not exceed 30 feet (9144 mm) from any seat to the point where a person has a choice of two or more paths of egress travel to separate exits."

Second is an accessibility issue that requires a minimum 36 inch wide accessible route from entrance to accessible seating to bathrooms etc.

Note that the 35 inch kitchen width violates the 36 inch minimum clearance between counters and appliances.

2009 IBC

1208.1 Minimum room widths. Habitable spaces, other than a kitchen, shall not be less than 7 feet (2134 mm) in any plan dimension. Kitchens shall have a clear passageway of not less than 3 feet (914 mm) between counter fronts and appliances or counter fronts and walls.
 
cdohh said:
Total allowed capacity isn't calculated just yet--still working on a bit of the concept of the restaurant as of now. But it will definitely fall under the 75 persons that usually require it to be classified as an Assembly occupancy. We're shooting more in the 40-45 person range. This space is in the ground floor of a brownstone, so it's not a very big space--only one exit required based on the target capacity I believe.

.
Click to expand...
For IBC the majic number to switch from B to A-2 and require panic hardware and 2 exits is a total occupant load of 50. A 49 ok 1 exit B use. At 50 two exits panic hardare A-2 use.
 
Dont forget, lowered eating and service counters....

we are only seeing a fraction of the unit.

count the kitchen, storage and service areas 1/200 not a part of the dining area
 
mt, please provide code cite for 75' max travel limit. Are you saying that this is true if you have less than 50 occupants?
 
Pastes like doo doo...but.....MT is correct. OL and distance affect # of exits...

1021.2 Single exits. Only one exit shall be required from Group R-3 occupancy buildings or from stories of other buildings as indicated in Table 1021.2. Occupancies shall be permitted to have a single exit in buildings otherwise required to have more than one exit if the areas served by the single exit do not exceed the limitations of Table 1021.2. Mixed occupancies shall be permitted to be served by single exits provided each individual occupancy complies with the applicable requirements of Table 1021.2 for that occupancy. Where applicable, cumulative occupant loads from adjacent occupancies shall be considered in accordance with the provisions of Section 1004.1. Basements with a single exit shall not be located more than one story below grade plane.

TABLE 1021.2 STORIES WITH ONE EXIT

STORY OCCUPANCY MAXIMUM OCCUPANTS (OR DWELLING UNITS)

PER FLOOR AND TRAVEL DISTANCE

First story or basement A, Bd, Ee, Fd, M, U, Sd 49 occupants and 75 feet travel distance

H-2, H-3 3 occupants and 25 feet travel distance

H-4, H-5, I, R 10 occupants and 75 feet travel distance

Sa 29 occupants and 100 feet travel distance

Second story Bb, F, M, Sa 29 occupants and 75 feet travel distance

R-2 4 dwelling units and 50 feet travel distance

Third story R-2c 4 dwelling units and 50 feet travel distance
 
Also

1021.1 Exception 5

5. Within a story , rooms and spaces complying with Section 1015.1 with exits that discharge directly to the exterior at the level of exit discharge , are permitted to have one exit .

1015.1 Exits or exit access doorways from spaces.

Two exits or exit access doorways from any space shall be provided where one of the following conditions exists:

Exception: Group I-2 occupancies shall comply with Section 1014.2.2 through 1014.2.7.

1. The occupant load of the space exceeds one of the values in Table 1015.1.

Exception: In Group R-2 and R-3 occupancies, one means of egress is permitted within and from individual dwelling units with a maximum occupant load of 20 where the dwelling unit is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2.

2. The common path of egress travel exceeds one of the limitations of Section 1014.3.

Table 1015.1 limits you to 49 occupants

1014.3 Common path of egress travel.

In occupancies other than Groups H-1, H-2 and H-3, the common path of egress travel shall not exceed 75 feet (22860 mm). In Group H-1, H-2 and H-3 occupancies, the common path of egress travel shall not exceed 25 feet (7620 mm). For common path of egress travel in Group A occupancies and assembly occupancies accessory to Group E occupancies having fixed seating, see Section 1028.8.
 
ADAguy said:
Frank, it hasen't been 2009 for 5 years (smiling).
Click to expand...
True but original post quoted that as the code in effect. We adopt 2012 July 14 this year with a one year applicants choice transitions period.
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! Really shining some light on the situation for me.

Just a little more background information on this project:

-Total interior building length is about 50' (This is inside the base of a brownstone in Brooklyn) with a 20' backyard. All the 'customer occupied' space is on the first floor, and should fall within that 75' travel distance no problem. The only issue I would forsee is the backyard egress when restaurant seating is placed out back.

-Very typical of NYC, there's also a diamond-plate door that exits directly to the street from the basement where the cold-storage/food prep space will be.

-I'm going to break down the space into zones soon to calculate the occupancy based on the different uses

-Client is shooting to fit 40-45 seats in space, so just below the 49 occupant threshold

-I believe the entire building is of R-2 occupancy

-See attached image. Ideally, I would be able to fit the bench seating along the wall, an eat-at bar/prep station, as well as the cooking equipment (you see the 3'6" deep wok station). But at this point there will be no leg room at that center portion of the bar where the under-counter refrigerators will be. This is why I was looking to find an alternate solution mentioned above, such as showing some overlap between the non-fixed tables along the booth wall, or stools that slide under these tables--ideally straddling the line between legal issues for egress, and functional issues for service. We had placed a single row of built in table with one seat deep facing the wall, but this seems undesirable to say the least.

This was more or less the root of my question, but you all gave me more than I bargained for. Thanks again for the help, and any additional insight to what I said above is of course welcome!

Cheers!

Chris
 
Also, I had an additional question for those who may have worked on a similar type of project in recent years. I guess I'm just curious to see what the relationship is between what one would submit in plans for permits vs. what one would actually occupy the space with--in terms of seating count and arrangement. I understand occupancy is determined by square footage and not by what's necessarily shown on the plan. But I have noticed (especially here in NYC) that plenty of restaurants most certainly do not reflect the floor plans they submit for permits. I'm just wondering what common practice is for negotiating these waters, to make the most out of the space will staying within the legal lines.

Thanks again!

Chris
 
cdohh said:
Thanks for all the replies everyone! Really shining some light on the situation for me. Just a little more background information on this project:

-I believe the entire building is of R-2 occupancy

This was more or less the root of my question, but you all gave me more than I bargained for. Thanks again for the help, and any additional insight to what I said above is of course welcome!

Cheers!

Chris
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The entire building is R-2 occupancy? Is this project a change of use from the existing residential?

If so, you open another can of worms in terms of fire rated separating the residential from the restaraunt. egress from the upper floors, and a requirement for fire sprinklers.
 
Chris, given your line of questions to date, are you a: designer, architect, owner, or? First resturaunt?
 
Chris, also you are correct in your observation; if it ain't bolted down, it will move; be added too or changed over a weekend.
 
ADAguy said:
Chris, given your line of questions to date, are you a: designer, architect, owner, or? First resturaunt?
Click to expand...
I'm a designer/architect (working on my exams currently). This is my first restaurant project--previously I dealt with high-rise luxury condos/apartments, so this is a bit of a different ballgame for me now (hence, all the questions). It sounds like this building was built in the 1930s, so there's some grandfathering in with the occupancy (the owner said the building doesn't really have a C of O as of now apparently, and it's typical of the prewar buildings around). There's also no fireproofing/sprinklers between the ground floor retail and the residential units directly above, which is something that may need to be addressed. It seems like for permitting, the city mostly wants a preliminary layout with the concern lying in the kitchen equipment placement and ventilation moreso than say egress, so I may be jumping the gun a bit on some of the details down to the inch of the layouts. I figured might as well start with the strictest guidelines (as you guys have so kindly pointed out above!) and work from there rather than squeezing everything in illegally then dealing with it later.
 
Chris, "don't" even use the word "illegal" if you expect to get licensed. How will you vent the kitchen hood exhaust? Have you reviewed/considered kitchen equipment specs for plumbing, waste and gas?

New York has a health department that reviews resturaunts, no?

Check their website for their specific plan review requirements.
 
What was the previous (legal) use of the space?

Grandfathering tends to go away if the previous use was not properly permitted and when there is a change of use.

Generally this type of project would require the signature and seal of a licensed or registered design profession--local laws vary, but I doubt NY is less restrictive.
 
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