Ribbon board or ledger board- room inside of balloon framed garage

[andyaz]

Building a garage for someone and decided to do the plans myself as an exercise.

I'm thinking of how to detail the framing on this bathroom (5x8) inside of the garage. Particularly attaching the ceiling joists to the balloon framed wall; I checked the book for a prescriptive way to do this but came up short. The city is on 2018 IRC

I could do a ledger with ledger screws, but then I still need to add a nailer for drywall below it. I came upon this detail for "ribbon". looks like just notching out the studs and fastening a 2x4. Then just framing in the walls, tonailing the ceiling joists to the interior wall on one end and then to the studs on the ribbon side.

Any thoughts? no seismic or wind concerns, Phoenix. 2x6 exterior wall. I can't find any info on whether this is OK for a prescriptive solution.

 

[redeyedfly]

Ledger, no question.

 

[andyaz]

Ledger, no question.

How come? Just curious. cost wise I think I'd come slightly ahead even w/ labor by notching in a ribbon board and it just feels more solid, looking at it.

Is there a prescriptive way to propose this kind of ledger? anything I've seen for decks is overkill for this 5' span

 

[steveray]

R502.6​

The ends of each joist, beam or girder shall have not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal, have not less than 3 inches of bearing (76 mm) on masonry or concrete or be supported by approved joist hangers. Alternatively, the ends of joists shall be supported on a 1-inch by 4-inch (25 mm by 102 mm) ribbon strip and shall be nailed to the adjacent stud. The bearing on masonry or concrete shall be direct, or a sill plate of 2-inch-minimum (51 mm) nominal thickness shall be provided under the joist, beam or girder. The sill plate shall provide a minimum nominal bearing area of 48 square inches (30 865 mm2).

 

[redeyedfly]

How come? Just curious. cost wise I think I'd come slightly ahead even w/ labor by notching in a ribbon board and it just feels more solid, looking at it.

Is there a prescriptive way to propose this kind of ledger? anything I've seen for decks is overkill for this 5' span

You can simply use the capacities of the ledger screws and the hangers. There will be an ICC report with tested capacities.

 

[BN4537]

What you are planning is a very strong structural detail.

Ledgering onto the studs from the outside with four nails per stud would work per the fastener schedule in the IRC (R602.3(1), number 29), or an engineer could spec lags screws or bolts (or you could find their capacities yourself as noted above), but notching the ribbon into the studs and setting the joists on top will always be stronger than a fastener dependent connection.

Full bearing wins over fasteners every time in the strength and durability category.

 

[e hilton]

For the ignorant, what’s the difference between a ribbon board and a ledger board!

 

[andyaz]

You can simply use the capacities of the ledger screws and the hangers. There will be an ICC report with tested capacities.

Thanks- I didn't know about that. I'm new to designing, will use that when I do a deck or something.

R502.6​

The ends of each joist, beam or girder shall have not less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) of bearing on wood or metal, have not less than 3 inches of bearing (76 mm) on masonry or concrete or be supported by approved joist hangers. Alternatively, the ends of joists shall be supported on a 1-inch by 4-inch (25 mm by 102 mm) ribbon strip and shall be nailed to the adjacent stud. The bearing on masonry or concrete shall be direct, or a sill plate of 2-inch-minimum (51 mm) nominal thickness shall be provided under the joist, beam or girder. The sill plate shall provide a minimum nominal bearing area of 48 square inches (30 865 mm2).

you are the MAN! Thanks, some reason I wasn't able to find that looking for ribbon board. I'll keep it handy incase the planner gives me grief.

What you are planning is a very strong structural detail.

Ledgering onto the studs from the outside with four nails per stud would work per the fastener schedule in the IRC (R602.3(1), number 29), or an engineer could spec lags screws or bolts (or you could find their capacities yourself as noted above), but notching the ribbon into the studs and setting the joists on top will always be stronger than a fastener dependent connection.

Full bearing wins over fasteners every time in the strength and durability category.

Thanks for the input- and the schedule for the nailing of the ledger. Going to keep that one handy. I agree it just feels right to have stuff bearing on beams and notches instead of relying on fasteners.

For the ignorant, what’s the difference between a ribbon board and a ledger board!

from my perspective as builder/carpenter: Ledger you bolt or nail onto the studs or more often the rim joist (like building a deck, you'd peel away the siding at the rim joist and bolt on a solid piece of wood through the rim joist) then you would nail on joist hangers and that's your attachment point.

ribbon board, you cut in a notch in the studs to fit that same ledger board. since there wasn't a rim joist to bolt that board onto. the ledger/ribbon board bears on the stud because it's in the notch, then instead of using joist hangers you just put the joists on top of the rim board and face nail it to the stud next to it. here's the detail:

 

[bill1952]

Certainly the ribbon board is the classic way to do it. Have lived in 2 balloon framed 2 story houses with full attics and 2nd floor and attic were just as you described and as IRC still allows. (Not sure I could very easily find 24' 2x4s today though.)

 

[ICE]

Nailed to the stud with a flat block under the joist between the studs.

 

[andyaz]

Certainly the ribbon board is the classic way to do it. Have lived in 2 balloon framed 2 story houses with full attics and 2nd floor and attic were just as you described and as IRC still allows. (Not sure I could very easily find 24' 2x4s today though.)

Interesting, as a west-coaster I never saw this technique (or anything balloon framed). Unless you count tall garages

 

[my250r11]

With the ledger you would need hangers to attach the joist to the ledger.

 

[ICE]

It's a 5'x 8' ceiling. You could hold that together with glue.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Until he starts storing things on top

 

[BN4537]

Or hangs something heavy on it.