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Roof Construction - Fire Treated Wood Use?

indyarchyguy

SAWHORSE
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
134
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United States
We have an existing building. Existing Type II-B Construction. Part of the work is replacing the roof system (see attached details). The existing building still has existing wood nailers and fascia that were left in place as they are not rotted, etc.

Per Table 601, Type II-B construction, the table indicates for "Roof Construction and Associated Secondary Members" the fire rating is 0-hours. The definition of Secondary Members per Section 202 is as follows:

"SECONDARY MEMBERS. The following structural members shall be considered secondary members and not part of the primary structural frame:
  1. Structural members not having direct connections to the columns.
  2. Members of the floor construction and roof construction not having direct connections to the columns.
  3. Bracing members other than those that are part of the primary structural frame."
The inspector has come back during construction, where the roof is almost complete, and cited (by highlighting the specific text below) out of the 2015 Code and Commentary, (which is not adopted by the jurisdiction) the following regarding the new wood nailers, etc.:

2015 IBC Code and Commentary
Section 603 - Combustible Material in Type I and II Construction

Buildings of Type I and II construction are considered noncombustible structures. as such, all of the building elements, including walls, floors, and roofs, are to be constructed of noncombustible materials. There are, however, a variety of exceptions to the general rule that allow a limited amount of combustibles to be used in the building's construction.

Roofs constructed of FRT wood are also acceptable in most buildings. This would include roof girders, trusses, beams, joists, or decking, as well as blocking, nailers, or similar components that may be a part of the roof system.


The allowances in Section 603.1, Item 1.3, do not reduce any required level of fire resistance for wall or roof construction as established by Table 601. Rather, they simply allow the use of FRT wood in the locations listed where noncombustible construction is otherwise required.

As Table 601 provides for a 0-hour rating, what am I missing here? The code allows for secondary members to not be rated and yet, the inspector is requiring FRT based on a code and commentary. Is this a known bust between the actual code and the code/commentary book? Thank you.
 

Attachments

There are some gimmies for FRT (especially in IIB roofs), but don't confuse noncombustible with an hourly rating.....Me thinks footnote b applies
I looked at that too...however, I am not certain it does....the 20-feet or more I think is the killer there....perhaps I am incorrect?

"b. Except in Group F-1, H, M and S-1 occupancies, fire protection of structural members shall not be required, including protection of roof framing and decking where every part of the roof construction is 20 feet or more above any floor immediately below. Fire-retardant-treated wood members shall be allowed to be used for such unprotected members."
 
How about 603.1 exception 13 - Combustible exterior wall coverings ...

Exception 4 - Roof coverings that have an A, B or C classification is another possibility if the manufacturers construction detail includes combustible nailers.
 
So after lengthy review again last night, l turn to table 602 and in my opinion the fact that distance allows for no fire rating, this pretty much handles it. Anyone disagree?
 

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The inspector is citing the correct section (although I would argue improperly)...You are arguing the wrong section.....603.1 has the gimmies for combustible materials in non-combustible construction....Non-combustible does not equal fire rated and vice versa....
 
The inspector is citing the correct section (although I would argue improperly)...You are arguing the wrong section.....603.1 has the gimmies for combustible materials in non-combustible construction....Non-combustible does not equal fire rated and vice versa....
I see where you are coming from, but 14 and 18 are mainly for interior elements. See attached. I really think that is a stretch, but again, we can see.
 

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It's either that or every commercial flat roof I have ever seen on a IIB building is wrong......RTU curbs, edge nailers, all usually PT, not FRT.....
I agree with you 1 million percent. To satisfy my bewilderment, how would you say he’s arguing improperly? I’m definitely not going to be ripping out all this wood.
 
Really you have to argue 14, because 18 references Ch. 8 for "interior" as you state...If you can put non-FRT blocking in a wall in the space, why couldn't you use it on the exterior edge of the roof?
 
Here you go....Not enough time/ info to lay it all out.....

1406.2.1 Type I, II, III and IV construction. On buildings of Type I, II, III and IV construction, exterior wall coverings shall be permitted to be constructed of combustible materials, complying with the following limitations: 1. Combustible exterior wall coverings shall not exceed 10 percent of an exterior wall surface area where the fire separation distance is 5 feet (1524 mm) or less. 2. Combustible exterior wall coverings shall be limited to 40 feet (12 192 mm) in height above grade plane. 3. Combustible exterior wall coverings constructed of fire-retardant-treated wood complying with Section 2303.2 for exterior installation shall not be limited in wall surface area where the fire separation distance is 5 feet (1524 mm) or less and shall be permitted up to 60 feet (18 288 mm) in height above grade plane regardless of the fire separation distance. 4. Wood veneers shall comply with Section 1405.5. 1406.2.1.1 Ignition resistance. Where permitted by Section 1406.2.1, combustible exterior wall coverings shall be tested in accordance with NFPA 268. Exceptions: 1. Wood or wood-based products.
 
Here you go....Not enough time/ info to lay it all out.....

1406.2.1 Type I, II, III and IV construction. On buildings of Type I, II, III and IV construction, exterior wall coverings shall be permitted to be constructed of combustible materials, complying with the following limitations: 1. Combustible exterior wall coverings shall not exceed 10 percent of an exterior wall surface area where the fire separation distance is 5 feet (1524 mm) or less. 2. Combustible exterior wall coverings shall be limited to 40 feet (12 192 mm) in height above grade plane. 3. Combustible exterior wall coverings constructed of fire-retardant-treated wood complying with Section 2303.2 for exterior installation shall not be limited in wall surface area where the fire separation distance is 5 feet (1524 mm) or less and shall be permitted up to 60 feet (18 288 mm) in height above grade plane regardless of the fire separation distance. 4. Wood veneers shall comply with Section 1405.5. 1406.2.1.1 Ignition resistance. Where permitted by Section 1406.2.1, combustible exterior wall coverings shall be tested in accordance with NFPA 268. Exceptions: 1. Wood or wood-based products.
So, the city and the inspector finally acquiesced to the situation and allowed construction to carry on. They have said that when the new code for their city is adopted they are going to put an amendment in it to require fire-treated wood for this situation from now on. They have been mandating FRT wood on all projects for a few years. The Architect said if it was spelled out that would have been different. IMHO it still does not require that in the codes. I spoke to a friend of mine who reps FRT products and of course said, "well yes, it is obvious that you would need FRT." Ahem. The other element pointed out was, if nailers, curbs and shims have to be FRT, and nothing out of the codes that we have pointed out says it has to be, then why is foam insulation allowed in a roofing system....it certainly isn't fire-treated. Silence....
 
Common sense...ain't that common...And then just make sure you are specifying the coated fasteners as per the FRTW manufacturer.....
I just came across this thread. I've always used plain old PT nailers on tops of parapets and roof edges in Type IIB and never had an issue. Have I been wrong all these years?
 
Per 2018 IBC Commentary on 603:

Roof construction and roof coverings:
While combustible roofs must be of FRTW if used in a Type I or II building, roof coverings, blocking, nailers and furring strips are also permitted to be combustible without the use of FRTW (see Items 4, 14 and 18).
“Roof covering” is defined as the membrane covering the roof that provides weather resistance, fire resistance and appearance. As long as a noncombustible roof deck (or FRTW) is provided as the structural element, foam plastic insulation, wood structural panels, nailing/furring strips and roof coverings may be applied.
 
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