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Room size and Window Requirement

D

darcysams

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Atlanta GA
Good afternoon. I am new here. I should say I'm new to reading codes. This is the first time I've ever tried to read building codes. Hopefully I won't annoy anyone and you'll be able to understand my rambling ways.

First a little background. I have a condo in a complex that was built in 1972. There are 3 buildings of 36 units each - 2 of those buildings (72 units) were damaged by a tornado. The buildings were condemned, but they are rebuilding. According to the information sheet mailed to owners they "will rebuild buildings B & C from the current shell. Both buildings will be stripped down to the studs and will be rebuilt and repaired to contractor grade standards."

Before the tornado the units were efficiencies. No interior walls except the bathroom. Only 650 sq ft. Small, I know, but it's on the beach so it's all I need. In the redesign they have added walls to make a bedroom. The new bedroom is 6' 10" wide (+ or - 6") and 9' long (+ or - 6") so it's about 63 sq ft.

In looking at the NC Building code in Chapter 12, Section 1208.3 Room area. "Every dwelling unit shall have at least one room that shall have not less than 120 square feet of net floor space. Other habitable rooms shall have a net floor are of not less than 70 square feet."

So according to the current NC Code they are not in compliance.

What I don't know is if they will be subject to this newer edition of the code or if they will only be subject to the code that was in place at the time the building was constructed in 1972.

I have heard that they will only be required to apply the new code if they are rebuilding 50% or more of the building. Is that true? I couldn't find it anywhere online, I tried every search term I could think of. If you've had experience with this, or if you know where to point me for that information, I'd really appreciate it.

I couldn't find anything in the NC Code about Window requirements in Bedrooms, but I know (or think I know) that where the NC Code is silent they follow the IBC - I had read in another posting in this forum that there is a requirement for a bedroom to have a window, but they quoted the IRC and didn't note the chapter. Since the condominium is considered a commercial property, I looked for it in the IBC but couldn't find it. I tried Chapter 10 because I thought it might have something to do with the egress, but didn't come across it. I don't have a very "searchable" version of the IBC - maybe there's a better resource online. So my questions are:

1.) Can someone point me to the correct chapter of the IBC where it addresses the window requirement in a bedroom.

2.) Similar to the question above - would they be subject to this code or subject to the code that was in place at the time the building was constructed in 1972?

This is a great forum. Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help in answering any of the questions!
 
It's called various names

Un amended from the 2009 ibc:::

SECTION 1029 EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE

1029.1 General. In addition to the means of egress required by this chapter, provisions shall be made for emergency escape and rescue in Group R and I-1 occupancies. Basements and sleeping rooms below the fourth story above grade plane shall have at least one exterior emergency escape and rescue opening in accordance with this section. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency escape and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping room, but shall not be required in adjoining areas of the basement. Such openings shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

Exceptions:

1. In other than Group R-3 occupancies, buildings equipped throughout with an approved automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2.

2. In other than Group R-3 occupancies, sleeping rooms provided with a door to a fire-resistance-rated corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions.

3. The emergency escape and rescue opening is permitted to open onto a balcony within an atrium in accordance with the requirements of Section 404, provided the balcony provides access to an exit and the dwelling unit or sleeping unit has a means of egress that is not open to the atrium.

4. Basements with a ceiling height of less than 80 inches (2032 mm) shall not be required to have emergency escape and rescue windows.

5. High-rise buildings in accordance with Section 403.

6. Emergency escape and rescue openings are not required from basements or sleeping rooms that have an exit door or exit access door that opens directly into a public way or to a yard, court or exterior exit balcony that opens to a public way.

7. Basements without habitable spaces and having no more than 200 square feet (18.6 m2) in floor area shall not be required to have emergency escape windows.

1029.2 Minimum size. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5.7 square feet (0.53 m2).

Exception: The minimum net clear opening for emergency escape and rescue grade-floor openings shall be 5 square feet (0.46 m2).

1029.2.1 Minimum dimensions. The minimum net clear opening height dimension shall be 24 inches (610 mm). The minimum net clear opening width dimension shall be 20 inches (508 mm). The net clear opening dimensions shall be the result of normal operation of the opening.

1029.3 Maximum height from floor. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall have the bottom of the clear opening not greater than 44 inches (1118 mm) measured from the floor.

1029.4 Operational constraints. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys or tools. Bars, grilles, grates or similar devices are permitted to be placed over emergency escape and rescue openings provided the minimum net clear opening size complies with Section 1029.2 and such devices shall be releasable or removable from the inside without the use of a key, tool or force greater than that which is required for normal operation of the escape and rescue opening. Where such bars, grilles, grates or similar devices are installed in existing buildings, smoke alarms shall be installed in accordance with Section 907.2.11 regardless of the valuation of the alteration.
 
As far as what code you have to meet , is up to local or state requirements

But the locals are able to tell you and show you where it is written
 
Existing Buildings Code

The 1995 Existing Building Code was effective from June 14, 1994 and is currently effective. There were minor revisions in 1997, 1998, and 1999. Effective January 1, 2003, the NC Building Code Council replaced Chapters 5 and 6 of the Existing Building Code with Sections 3405 and 3409 of the 2002 Building Code. Table 501 of Chapter 5 may continue to be used for relative hazard categories and classification.

http://www.ncdoi.com/osfm/Engineering_and_Codes/Default.aspx?field1=State_Building_Codes_USER&user=State_Building_Codes
 
Welcome to "our" sometimes crazy world.

Is NC's code statewide or are their "local" city amendments?

What year of IBC is adopted in the community where the condo is located?
 
cda said:
I take the condo has no fire sprinkler system????
Click to expand...
You are correct - there are no sprinkler systems in place.

I tried talking to the Director of Building Inspectors for the area but she wasn't very helpful. I sent her the plans and referenced the code that I found and asked her the same questions,. All she would say is if they can't get 70sq ft and a window they can't do it. I asked her the followup question about the 50% rebuild and she never responded. It's been a couple of days. I guess I'll circle back to her again and see if I can get an answer. So maybe I don't have anything to worry about. I'm sure she's on the case, I'm probably overreacting - but this is my investment and I don't want 63 sq ft bedroom.

Thanks for the time you took to make those references -- I'll read over them and familiarize myself so I'm able to talk at least somewhat intelligently when I call her again.

Again, thanks for your time.
 
It seems odd that you can be forced to accept a floor plan that is different than what was existing. It is downright bizarre that they would insist on a tiny bedroom with no EERO.

The code model and year wouldn't matter as none would allow that. Some jurisdictions will let a rebuild from a calamity be done "like for like" without strict adherence to the current code. This case includes a new floor plan and that must be done under current code.
 
Can you re state the question

"""they can't get 70sq ft and a window they can't do it."""

""""this is my investment and I don't want 63 sq ft bedroom. """"

Do you want a bigger bedroom??

Do you want a separate bedroom??

Or just build it back as was ---- an efficiency?
 
ICE: Unfortunately our Homeowners Association by-laws give the Board of Directors the authority to make changes in the event of a rebuild. Shame on me for not paying closer attention before a disaster struck. The real rub is they sent out the new layout on June 14 (without dimensions) and started construction in June 16. I emailed them several times for the dimensions - first they told me that we may have to wait until a few are built before we have the dimensions (REALLY?!?!?) I pointed out that they had a blueprint, therefore they had to have dimensions. I finally called the construction company myself and the project manager told me the bedroom was designed to accommodate a full sized bed. Which was my suspicion all along - even though the layout they sent without the dimensions has a draft of a bed in it with the words "Queen Bed" on it and after they told me in 2 different emails that the intent was to accommodate a queen bed. Truth is - there is only 17" on one side of the bed (with the other side flush to the wall) in the "Typical" unit with a queen bed -- and only 11" if you happen to be that poor sap who is on the -6" side of the variance...Now - how is that accommodating a Queen size bed. They finally sent out the dimensions when I sent an email to the entire complex outlining my concerns and my conversation with the project managers...some how some way, magically within an hour, they had the dimensions.

Sorry, I vented, it felt good.

cda:

"If they can't get 70sq ft and a window they can't do it" is what I was told by the Director of Building Inspectors when I asked her the same questions I posted here. So she didn't really answer the question about the 50% or which code year they would have to follow...or maybe she did, maybe by saying they couldn't do it, she was saying that they have to follow the current code -- she just didn't respond when I asked her the clarifying question -- it's been a couple days, I'll give her a few more before I circle back again.

As to your question of what I want, A separate bedroom is nice in theory, and if they can work out the space where it would comfortably fit a queen size bed (which is what I previously had and prefer for two adults). Then I would think that would be great. I just don't see how it can be done in the space that is available and still have space for a living area as well.
 
So who dictates if there is a separate bedroom?

You or the hoa

If the space thing can be worked out???

Just trying to get a clear picture on what is going on
 
ADAguy said:
Welcome to "our" sometimes crazy world.Is NC's code statewide or are their "local" city amendments?

What year of IBC is adopted in the community where the condo is located?
Click to expand...
From my limited understanding the NC code is statewide. There are some additional code requirements for coastal properties - but they deal with the exterior and windows and such - not so much the interior layout of a unit.

As far as the year of the IBC adoptions, I have no clue. Any suggestions on where I might find that?

Thanks for your reply
 
cda:

If the Board of the HOA can work out the space issue and pass whatever code requirements they are required to, then they can dictate the design. I have no say whatsoever in the layout or design of the space. As I said - we got no notice this was happening - they revealed it to us 2 days before construction started.

If the window is a firm requirement for a bedroom regardless of the code year, then they won't be able to do it, because the bedroom area is comprise of all interior walls.
 
I can't believe that the HOA can make changes to the interior design of a unit under any circumstance. Typically, the inside of any unit is outside of the HOAs control. They are responsible for everything outside of the unit but not the interior! In addition, you purchased an efficiency unit, if they don't return an efficiency unit to you I would question whether you even have a condo anymore! You may want to discuss this with a lawyer to see what his opinion is. Many times the bylaws and rules that control a HOA proved not to be valid in court.
 
darcysams said:
From my limited understanding the NC code is statewide. There are some additional code requirements for coastal properties - but they deal with the exterior and windows and such - not so much the interior layout of a unit.As far as the year of the IBC adoptions, I have no clue. Any suggestions on where I might find that?

Thanks for your reply
Click to expand...
2012 North Carolina State Building Code Building Code cover

http://ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_resources/2012NorthCarolina/Building/12NC_Building.html

http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_resources/2012NorthCarolina/12NorthCarolina_main.html
 
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yes if you own the unit, it seems a little strange the hoa can tell you to add a bedroom,

so what is the hoa's plan if they cannot create a separate bedroom??

my questions were directed to maybe an alternative such as a 3/4 high pony wall separating the rest of the unit from where the bed was, to me it is the same room and window requirement goes out the window, or maybe some sliding walls to separate the bed from the rest of the unit. With the sliding walls they can be moved whenever.

maybe not this fancy::

 
" ...will be rebuilt and repaired to contractor grade standards."

Hardly any room for interpretation there. Pretty concise. "Cut and Dried" you might say.

Brent.
 
Thanks so much for all your replies. I'm learning so much -- who'd ever though me with not even a hammer to her name would be reading building codes with such furor! I appreciate all the support.

Msradell: I actually do have an appointment with a lawyer next Wednesday. Unfortunately, I'm currently out of work, and have no rental income coming in from my beach place, so I'm under quite a lot of financial pressure right now, I'm not sure I can afford more than this $50 consultation. But hopefully he can give me some ideas of what to do next.

Cda: That's a cool video -- wish I had enough money to do something like that. Luckily for me, I was able to salvage all my furniture -- like about 60% of the other owners - which is one of the reasons I'm a little unhappy about the new design -- neither my bed nor my couch will fit in the new layout.

If they are only going to do a 3/4ths wall - why do a wall at all - I know that helps them code wise - but I don't see what it does for the owners. I know some owners are on board with the new design because the like the idea of a new bedroom, regardless of how small it is. But not sure how they would feel with a less than full wall...something to consider though, I guess.

I'm not sure what they will do if they don't do the bedroom - my hope is they would turn it back into an efficiency - but I don't have a clue.

I did hear back from the Building Inspector - she said that if they eliminate the door and make the room at least 70 sq feet they will meet the code requirements. 70sq feet is still small - and depending on how they increase it - I think it will be length wise - I don't think it will help me any because the width of the bedroom won't change and that means there's still not room for the queen bed...and if they take another 12" off the length of the living room, then I will likely not be able to have a full size couch either.

Don't you just love it when people come on here to complain?

Thanks again for listening, all the code references, suggestions and support!
 
darcysams said:
Thanks so much for all your replies. I'm learning so much -- who'd ever though me with not even a hammer to her name would be reading building codes with such furor! I appreciate all the support.Msradell: I actually do have an appointment with a lawyer next Wednesday. Unfortunately, I'm currently out of work, and have no rental income coming in from my beach place, so I'm under quite a lot of financial pressure right now, I'm not sure I can afford more than this $50 consultation. But hopefully he can give me some ideas of what to do next.

Cda: That's a cool video -- wish I had enough money to do something like that. Luckily for me, I was able to salvage all my furniture -- like about 60% of the other owners - which is one of the reasons I'm a little unhappy about the new design -- neither my bed nor my couch will fit in the new layout.

If they are only going to do a 3/4ths wall - why do a wall at all - I know that helps them code wise - but I don't see what it does for the owners. I know some owners are on board with the new design because the like the idea of a new bedroom, regardless of how small it is. But not sure how they would feel with a less than full wall...something to consider though, I guess.

I'm not sure what they will do if they don't do the bedroom - my hope is they would turn it back into an efficiency - but I don't have a clue.

I did hear back from the Building Inspector - she said that if they eliminate the door and make the room at least 70 sq feet they will meet the code requirements. 70sq feet is still small - and depending on how they increase it - I think it will be length wise - I don't think it will help me any because the width of the bedroom won't change and that means there's still not room for the queen bed...and if they take another 12" off the length of the living room, then I will likely not be able to have a full size couch either.

Don't you just love it when people come on here to complain?

Thanks again for listening, all the code references, suggestions and support!
Click to expand...
have not had to deal with condos much and hate hoa's, but to me if you own the unit, you should be able to dicatate what the interior remodel should look like or dicatate that it gets put back like it was,

or does the hoa own the interior walls also??

So who is paying for the interior work.
 
Removing the door to a bedroom to mitigate the requirement for an EERO is one I hadn't heard before. I'd just have to say no to that.
 
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